[yahoo woj report]Nuggets Looking Into Three-Way Trades

how do you know Melo THINKS he is as good as Durant? I would like to believe that any player of Anthony's talent would think that they are the best have that sort of confidence in themselves and play that way. How has Anthony not played like it? Considering that 1) he has had more success in the NCAA as a leading freshman than Durant has had as a leading freshman 2) he has had more success leading his team to the playoffs as a Rookie than Durant has had in leading his team as a rookie

Durant is getting a lot deserved pub right now and as everyone he agrees is the better of the two players but that by no means makes anthony not a superstar in his own right

what has anthony done that is about him being famous? he didnt have documentary crews the way Bosh and Lebron and all did. Heck he signed the full extension with his team unlike those stars did back when his contract was up for negotiation. outside of a twitter issue earlier this summer which no one knows if it was really him or his wife's doing if it was actually him I would say that behavior is more out of the norm than the usual for him. there hasnt been much from carmelo anthony in trying to put himself in the spotlight. Nike markets him as a young star (as they should with all their young players) but when it comes to being he hasnt dont anything out of the ordinary that other stars havent done in their prime. Yao has done more commercials both domestically and overseas than Anthony has, Dwight Howard did too and really its only a matter of time that Nike starts to do the same with Durant.


if anything Anthony has proven more in the NBA right now than Durant though when its all said and done Durant should have the more prolific career.

as for guys like Griffin the next team a team trades away a young potential superstar for boderline all-star would probably be the first. Teams that guy young players like these are usually the bad teams and they tend to hang on to those guys till they are a bit older at least. so basically it comes down to for you is 'standing pat' or tanking to get a high lotto pick so you can get the potential superstar

sorry right now the Rockets are headed to be a mediocre team without a star to lead them. the problem is that the team has too many good players to be bad enough to have a realistic shot at a top 5 pick. Even without Yao last year the team almost made the playoffs. With Yao limited the team can compete but will fall to the elite teams in the west in a 7 game series. They are a notch below LA and Dallas right now and ahead of the rest IMO with Yao as he is.

And again Yao's window is closing and who knows maybe this upcoming season is his final season, we dont know what his body will dictate. Maybe he will be able to play at a high level for the next few seasons but chances are nothing like what he played like a few years ago as he gets older.

After that who is left on this team? If you think Brooks or Martin or even a combination of both is good enough to lead this team to the playoffs let alone out of the west thats crazy they are good players but they are not that good. Even if Yao retires if we still have Anthony and enough good players we can always be in the mix for a title and Anthony can attract other FAs heck maybe even Paul if the whole 'collusion' thing is for real. (i dont expect that though)

as for the guy who wants to win:

date: may 27, 2009

link: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/nuggets/2009-05-26-anthony-raisesgame_N.htm


as I have been saying Anthony as a rookie had maturity issues the anthony of the last two seasons is a totally different player

I have no idea what your idea of a superstar is then

mine idea is: (and these are in no order)

top 5 players in the league = superduper stars

wade,kobe,lebron,durant,howard

and really I only put Durant in there for his potential the guy will be legit top 5 in a season or two but otherwise right now he probably is on the same level as Anthony and Paul


the next best 5 for me are superstars

Anthony
Paul
Deron Williams
Bosh
Gasol

10-20 elite players:
Duncan
Garnett
Pierce
Allen
Yao
Dirk
Nash
Rose
Parker
Granger

^ most of the 10-20 players are guys who used to be superstars or even superduper stars but due to age and injuries have fell...others could be young guys making their way up the ladder.

 

ill give u Durant even though he's a newbie to the club....but Ill take Melo over Deron in a big game any day

 

It's not about who's better than Carmelo, it's about who's available.

And don't forget, maybe we can trade Carmelo for Durant in a couple of years. You never know.

:grin:

 

The Rockets, right now are a 4 or 5 seed at best.....maybe they win the first round and then they would struggle vs LA.....IMO, add Melo and we are a top 3 seed who wouldnt see LA til the WCF and then who knows.....

 

exactly. melo is a difference maker because he is a go-to guy who can close out a game.

i agree with DD that i'd rather not part with martin for melo since he's almost as good at half the cost. but if the question is "will melo take us farther than we can go now?" the answer is yes.

 

The answer is "INC"....there is no data that backs up having Melo as your lead player is going to get you further than the team that plays together as a team and has multiple number 1 options.

That is the point...if it was CLEAR that he would make the team better than by all means, but it isn't clear.

And when you add in what you will have to pay him it becomes even murkier.

Lots of teams overpay for star players and doom their franchise to mediocrity.

Memphis with Gay, Atlanta with Johnson.....

I don't want the Rockets to be in the same boat with a very good player making max money, it is better IMO to have a lot of good players producing together than having one focal point who is not worth it, IMO.

DD

 

Wouldn't mello be the highest paid player in the league a few seasons from now. I mean everybody who signed this summer, signed for less than the max

 

The Rockets better get in on this

 

i agree with your reasoning. im not sure hes a "superstar" either but he can carry a team to the WCF with less talent around him than the rockets will supply. i mean when you look at the nuggets roster what do they really have that makes them good enough to get that far? i agree that he has flaws, but maybe we underestimate the importance of being able to flat out score. what we do know is he's not injury prone, can carry a team on him back, and can close out a game.

i guess it depends on what kind of contract the rockets predict yao will agree to next summer.

also, i would be just as happy if morey facilitated a nuggets/knicks trade that got melo out of the west (and the nugs out of the playoff race). the nuggets want a first round pick and i would be happy to give them one for randolph, gallinari, or chandler.

 

well here's where the big difference in opinion lies.....Melo, imo is head and shoulders above guys like Johnson and Gay....i mean, those guys arent even on the same planet.

Melo is not Kobe or Lebron.....but he certainly isnt Joe johnson...and moreover, he would be what we have sorely missed the past 2 years....a guy who can close the door on his opponent in the 4th quarter

 

I am pretty sure they are on the same planet. In the same country, too. And also in the same league. Maybe on different levels.

 

This. How great would it be if we give NY THEIR own pick back for Anthony Randolph....and a protected 2nd round pick just for kicks? :grin:

 

Yeah, Melo is indeed head and shoulders above JJ and Gay..however LBJ, Durant, Kobe, CP3 and DH are all head and shoulders above him as well.

Melo isn't a leader. In fact, he's someone who needs a strong leader on his team, because he's one immature punk who can't seem to stay away from trouble. He's not a guy you can give the keys to the franchise's future to, he's a 2nd banana in Chris Bosh's style rather than a real franchise guy like Wade or LBJ.

 

Lets look at this from another angle.....(as if we need another angle than he makes us more of a contender imo)

We get Melo......Yao goes down again,and decides he doesnt want to play anymore...or maybe he wants to play but we dont want to sign him and deal with his injuries.... we have a cast of guys that include Melo, AB, Scola, et al.....well when Yao's salary is a non factor next year, u can bet dollars to donuts that Melo will be out there pulling a "Wade" and doin whatever he can to bring in guys like CP3...

 

You are correct in that we disagree I think he is 100% right there with them.

He is 1 dimensional....he scores the ball.......and he is pretty danged good at it...but not elite.

If you gave that same usage rate to Kevin Martin he would be over 30ppg, well over.

DD

 

i think he's pretty much right in between of superstars like lebron/kobe and allstars like johnson/gay. like you i see many positives in adding him to this current team. namely the ability to close out a game and carry a team's scoring by himself if need be.

like DD i also wonder about his cost, both in terms of salary and that of acquiring him. i would be ok giving him max if we could acquire him for expirings, picks and a young guy or two. adding him to the talent we have would make us serious contenders, especially when yao gets back to full minutes. success will justify salary. however, i wouldn't be ok giving him max if we had to give up real talent to get him because it would hurt our ability to build a winner around him.

knowing that he will want/get max anywhere he goes, i would say that i only want him if we get a steal of a trade.

 

Just buy a few second round picks and the Rockets rise again!

 

Honestly, that, other than the fact that he is a top 5 player, is one of the main reasons why I would do this deal.

What if after Melo gets traded to Houston and agrees to sign that extension, tells Morey, " Hey, I talked it over with CP3, me and him have the same partna's and agents, and he's agreed to come here. Imma make sure he comes to to play for you and me." " You just take care of the financial aspect of it and it's a done deal."

Essentially, like Bosh coming to Miami and LeBron being packaged with him, it'll be the same with Melo and CP3.

Assuming Yao aint healthy and retires, his salary comes off the books and you could potentially roll with this lineup for the unforseeable future.

Paul
Martin
Melo
Scola
Miller or some other center to replace Yao.

 

Clearly I will back Morey whatever he decides, but I have serious doubts....

And with the CBA expected to become smaller, I would hate to have an albatross contract on the books for the next few years while salaries decline making it harder to build around him.

Melo is a good player, I just don't believe he is a great player.

Players I think are better than Melo.

Lebron
Kobe
Wade
Nash
CP3
DWill
Dirk
Roy
Nash
Durant
Howard
Pierce

Then he falls into the next group......

Out of the ones I listed above, only about 7 of them would be Superstars to me.

I think Melo is top 15 in the league, but not good enough to be the lead dog...because he doesn't do enough on the court outside of scoring the ball.

(And I am not interested in arguing my list, that would be a complete waste of time)....if yours is different, that is fine by me.

DD

 

What im wondering is, if Yao can still play well and we want to retain him, what happens for AB? Are we just going to add 6-8M x2 (cap tax) more to the payroll? I doubt it. I see another Ariza/Lee type trade whereby a 6 or 8M player gets turned into a <2M one. Maybe more than one. Maybe Yao signs for a discount.

Just how far will we go to keep this squad together?