If anything New York needs to give up more on the trade. They're 10million short. At worst Cuttino(9.5 mill expiring) in there.
i think iggy is overrated. butler is an all star already while iggy hasn't shown the potential to be an allstar or leader.
IT'S TIME TO FREE CARON<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/aWX91cjq2MI&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/aWX91cjq2MI&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>
I think this is the type of deal the Wiz want (maybe some picks too)... then the Rockets aren't sure if they want to pull the trigger.... thoughts????
We keep Scola and Washington can have Mobley's contract and I see now problem. If we have to give up Scola I say no. Only contracts that should be on the table are T-mac, Cook, Dorsey, and Taylor. They want anyone else I would hang up the phone.
With Feignen's article today about how a three team trade has been discussed but not as reported, and a direct trade is more likely, I'm guessing the teams are playing poker right now, with Washington demanding more than what Houston and N are offering, and Houston and NY aren't yet offering what Bima's posted above. I think Washington holds the cards here. They would like to make a trade that makes sense, but aren't percieved to have to do anything. It's known that Houston would like to parlay Tmac into a useful player or two, but we're sayign that we just might let that contract expire. In relative terms, I think our position is less convincing. NY is also insisting that they won't take on salary or give out young talent. i think the part about salary is convincing. However, NY is clearly willing to dole out expirings and some considerations that aren't critical, like 2nd round pick, cash considerations, and maybe a future first. I think NY desperately wants Tmac for two reasons: (i) He would be the first star in MSG since I don't know when; (ii) this would not only sell tickets, but energize the fan base; (iii) Tmac might just have something left and help with a playoff push, and (iv) most importantly, auditioning Tmac this year could sell him on MSG and he could be paired with one max contract player. The last point bears repeating -- If the Knicks can land just one of LeBron, Wade or Bosh, they can pair that person with a "healthy" Tmac as a No. 2 option. Can you imagine the star appeal of LeBron and Tmac, pitched as the next MJ/Pippen? I think that's why Walsh is checking out Tmac so closely. This is a very viable Plan B, and they can trumpet that as a successful rebuild. So, this means that of the three parties, NY is most motivated to get this done. But they have nothing we want. NY is going to have to pony up to facilitate this three way. As such, I can easily see them putting up $3MM (which would be more than offset by ticket sales and a playoff berth if Tmac is added). I can very well see NY offering up their 2nd rounder, and possibly a future first. NY would be idiots not to make this deal happen. As for the Rockets, we can deal Tmac to NY just for expirings, lux tax relief and money, but my guess is that we'd rather contribute Buddinger to make the Washington 3 way deal work. If Washington digs in and asks for more, I'd really consider adding Taylor or Dorsey. In the grand scheme of things, those guys are throw aways, and you don't let that get in the way of this deal if you really think Butler has more tread on the tires than people think. This is a win-win-win scenario, but in order for it to happen, all three parties need to be reasonable and not excessively greedy. The current state of negotiations are
Makes sense making Jamison expendable. And there is a market for Jamison. I just think they don't want to pull a Gasol by trading Jamison to the Cavs and be the Grizzlies of the east.
Some more news from Sportsline. http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/20013690 Interesting rumor, anxious to see how this turns out.
As I think about this more, I think the addition of Butler and Haywood would boost us to contender status, assuming we figure out a way to keep Haywood with the rest of the team. Starting Lineup: Brooks/Butler/Ariza/Scola/Yao Bench: Lowry/Battier/Landry/Haywood. First, the bench is elite. It's better than anything the Lakers can throw out there. Brooks is a significant advantage over Fisher Butler, Ariza and Battier could all take turns guarding Kobe. I believe Butler is a plus defender and Ariza does the best job on Kobe (despite what people think about Battier). Gasol and Odom remain matchup problems, but Haywood is a good option to help deal with either Gasol or Bynum. In addition, the Lakers don't have a good counter for the Lowry/landry combo. IMo, a healthy Yao is significantly superior to Bynum, who disappears regularly. The foursome of Kobe/Artest/Odom/Gasol presents so much skill, size and athleticism that the Lakers have the advantage over us. However, we would have better overall depth and have some matchup advantages at the PG and C spots. I would think that this squad could push to the Western Conference finals and push the Lakers to the brink, and maybe win it. It seems forever ago, but I remember how exciting it was for us to beat Portland last year and advance to Round 2. It would be worth a lot to field this team and push things to the WCF, with some possibility of pushing things further. IMO, the fun of getting to WCF would be worth giving up some assets to make this deal go. For this franchise, playoff success of this magnitude is valuable given our recent decade plus of futility.
Wow see there goes another source saying discussions did take place??? Adrian Wojo, Ken Berger say its a go but The Washington Post dude says no legs but discussions, Berman says basically the same but TMAC probably wont get traded, Feigen says a variation is being discussed and the NY Post says Walsh went to go see TMAC workout...This is madness :grin:
I keep reading all about what a wonderful leader Caron Butler is. How awesome he will make this team with his presence. On and on, people keep repeating it over the full span of threads. The groupthink seems to have built up Caron Butler as this great leader and winner. Caron Butler's career team winning percentage: 42% in 624 career games - 263 and 361 He's never been on a team that won more than 43 games. This is the guy who's going to lead the Rockets to the promised land? He did an awesome job of "leading" his team to 19-63 last year. The few times he has had marginal success, he's been at best a tertiary piece. He was a guy who, after one "fabulous" year in LA was traded... for Kwame Brown. Kwame freaking Brown. How poorly must your boss think of you to make that swap? I'm not saying he's a bad player, but if you trade for him expecting him to be one of the top couple of players on the team (which seems to be what people are dreamcasting)... he has a pretty well established history of losing pretty big when you try to place him in that role.
He wouldnt come here to "lead" us anywhere. He is an added piece that fills a need....offensive wing player.
Otto, Butler is a competent plus two way player. Not more, not less. it's wrong to suggest he is a No 1 or No2 player on an elite team. Rather, if he's added to our team and yao returns, our team would be constructed more in the mold of the pistons championship team, with multiple plus players, but no truly elite player. I'm not sure it would be a contender, but I think it would be a dangerous squad. I'd say that on a team like that, Yao and AB would be the primary scoring options, but Butler/Landry would both present competent threats. Our overall team defense would be very strong, and Lowry/Scola/Battier/haywood would all be competent plus players too. Not a bad one in the bunch.
Those leader and winner stuff is more BS than substance. KG was a loser almost all his career, played with some good players and all of a sudden he became a winner. So is Gasol. AI was a leader, SF3 was a leader, and now nobody wants them.
That's assuming the Lakers will sit on their laurels. But why would they? Kobe's probably getting surgery in the offseason, so im sure theyre gonna try to lure an old all star SG to play for them for reduced salary (isnt ray allen an expiring?) to lessen kobe's minutes. they know this is d fish's last 'productive' year and they cant expect too much from farmar. so it's safe to assume that they're gonna try and bring in another PG. a lot of FA's next year who would like to ride kobe's coattails. if the lakers dont win the championship this year, theyre sure to bring in more talent to surround kobe. i could even see tmac going to LA for the vet min
I like this deal, as long as we are not giving up any of our core players. Butler and haywood is a plus not only talent wise, but flexibility too. butler - nothing more need to be said, he is more than enough for us as a starter. he expire with one more year left. Haywood - haven't we all been looking for a center that can backup Yao? we can't afford to play Yao those kind of insane mins. haywood should be able to play 20 mins plus if needed. flexibility - due to the cap issue next season, some big name players may not even option out. they may postpone one more season til FA in 2010-2011. By then we have tone of expiring contracts that we can play with.
I don't expect a championship like these other guys do. I was hoping Morey would get a lottery pick back for T-Mac, that would be the only chance at a superstar. Butler has been a better player than T-Mac for the last 2 years. It's nice to get a better player.
