[Yahoo] Rockets don't want McGrady back, continue to try to trade him

Re-building from scratch is what we need. Shane and Luis can fit in better with contenders. Getting into the 1st round will be a big achievement and that's what we need to aim for now and hope that we can get a good role player with the draft,even though we need high lottery picks. Vets are important for everyone,but we shouldn't waste their chances to get a championship,if we can get good offers which can fit in with the rest.

 

Very clever of you. Not enough for me. I'm greedy. :grin:

 

God reading through the newest 8 pages of this thread was tough. I swear I read the same post by DD atleast 30 times (didnt you say you were done on the topic?).

@leeb, I think you are right about people not saying what they think. I have been pretty firm on my beliefs in my time here, the problem as I see it, is people get ridiculed for having standing in the way of a witch hunt. I have sympathy for those people because I often find myself in that position. I think I agree with most of your takes on the Rockets (except Shane of course :grin: ). It reminds me of the poll taken not long ago about what people wanted from McGrady and majority of the responses involved him in some role with the team, yet the "preachers" still talked as if everyone wanted him gone. Alas its good to know I have atleast some good quality posters who mimic my favorable views of McGrady and I am not some blind homer.

As far as rebuilding, frankly I think we are too young to rebuild. As much as people want to praise what we have going on now, the next few moves by management are critical to long term success. We arent going to get a superstar through drafting or free agency so how we handle trades is paramount. Of course if Morey adopts the Detroit "no star" style of building a team thats a whole different animal. I guess we will just have to wait and see.

 

Thats what i'm saying through all the smoke and tracy dialogue. If he doesn't fit, then yao,shane,and maybe even luis don't either. The same teams that are top 5 this year, will be the top 5 next yr. La,denv,Portland,Dallas, and i guess you have to throw phoenix in there again. Then you still have utah and san antonio. Sa is getting older, but parker,duncan,and jefferson still trumps our best players and they have a chamionship coach. Utah still causes major problems whenever yao is playing because they make him play in space. Now 3 yrs from now, sa,dallas and phoenix might fall down, but la,denver,and portland will be there with ok city possibly coming on. This is when the rockets should have their team peaking also. Carrying a 33yr old yao and scola along with a 34 yr old battier will not be in a prime position to win a title.

 

well done, durvasa. this was handled poorly on both sides. tracy's an easy target b/c of his big mouth and lack of the PR game. if he handled himself better last year, he might have been applauded for playing through the pain and helping the team (like he was lauded in the playoffs v. the jazz when he played through 2 injuries).

like i said, we can only hope this ends well and both sides part graciously.

 

It's all well and good to interpret the public statement from the parties, but your account here still doesn't include what's happening behind the scenes-- because a lot of that stuff just hasn't been made public (the same thing with a lot of the Artest stuff). My guess is that the team still is not convinced that McGrady needed that surgery, they still think that a player with a normal degree of toughness and pain tolerance could have pushed through the pain. And that's why they were suprised last year by the decision. McGrady traveled to a lot of doctors and found one that said he needed surgery and decided to listen to that one instead of others.

But that is only my educated guess.

The questions I ask myself are:

(1) Do guys like Clutch, Stevierebel, Adrian W., etc. have a history of lying? No.

(2) Do Adelman and Morey have a history of overreacting and not being able to handle player behavior issues and not make "basketball decisions" based on basketball factors? Again, no. These guys managed to work with Artest AND Wafer, for one thing.

(3) Does Tracy McGrady have a history of acting and saying things in a self-serving way to the detriment of his team at times? Yes. Ask Horace Grant why he got into it with McGrady. McGrady is what he is.

So, given that Adelman and Morey knows more than any of us do, I tend to believe they are honesty doing what they think are in the best interest of the team rather than trying to "punish" a player for insubordination or anything like that.

Tell me what in Adelman's history makes you think he will do anything other than trying to do the best for his team.

 

IMO durvasa is about as objective re: the McGrady debate, as anyone can be on this board.

Everyone can speculate and throw out "insider," information, but what we know for SURE is what was posted by durvasa. Well done, rep given.

Count me in as someone who'd like to see what McGrady can do before we ship him out for a bag of Doritios.

I hope Adelman and Morey are being honest about the McGrady situation. If they are then what they are doing is actually what's best for the team AND Tracy (whether he likes it or not). If they are not being honest I'd be pretty disappointed in them.

 

I wonder sometimes, myself, if having differences of opinion around here (civilly or otherwise), matters as much as screaming (or typing) longer and louder than anyone else.

At any rate, I've gotten more than a few insults because I'm not on any personal witch-hunt against any player for the Rockets, despite what I might feel about them or their performances.

As much as I disapproved of and was disappointed with Shane Battier or Luther Head or Stromile Swift, I tried to keep any personal bias out of anything I might have to say about them, and confine any observation of any player to what I can see for myself, and what those directly involved in the day-to-day team activities have to say.

Since I don't have the "resources" of some others here in regards to sources of information, I don't think anything I've ever said about any player has ever been held in any higher regard than anybody else's opinion. Quite possibly, though, I've been called an apologist and moved to some distant corner of the classroom to wear my dunce cap in silence.

But I like to think that I haven't bitten my tongue in any thing I've offered here, especially not for the sake of not angering the wrong people here.

For my money, as this season has progressed, the one salient fact I can pull from things to this point is that the Rockets have the right guys in place in GM Daryl Morey and Coach Rick Adelman. The team they've managed to piece together in the last two seasons is nothing short of remarkable, and adds all the truth and fact anybody bothering to pay attention would need to see what the large majority of the Rockets' problems competitively have been over the past five seasons.

They're not making excuses. They're holding players accountable on both ends of the court. They expect everybody playing to contribute. They aggressively look to improve players, and acquire players with the work ethic and the TALENT to produce consistently.

That's what people here are missing, to me. This team hasn't had the collection of talent it does now since the end of the 2007 season. That talent is underrated because there isn't an "engine" driving it (like a marquee player would be expected to do). But the Rocket's record speaks for itself. They have enough players to be competitive without either Yao Ming or Tracy McGrady for the FIRST TIME IN FIVE SEASONS.

I know that talent is what you need to win at this level. Don't believe for a second if anybody says that Detroit had all their recent success without a "star" player. They had a boatload of "stars".

Chauncey Billups. Richard Hamilton. Tayshaun Prince. Rasheed Wallace. Ben Wallace. Perennial All-Star performers. Unselfish. Tough. And most of all, playing on the same team. They won a championship and made six straight conference finals appearances.

If that's not having "stars", then nobody knows what they're talking about.
And are proving that they've missed the ENTIRE point of discussing a TEAM, where you can overlook weakness elsewhere because persecution is much easier to offer with a large enough and available target.

I'd encourage you guys to keep speaking whatever your opinion is (just like I'd do for anybody else, and have done for everybody else in spite of what's said of me). Whatever happens, somebody's going to feel like they know more than you or are smarter than you, or are closer to the whole thing than you are so they're better than you, or they're numbers make more sense than your numbers, or whatever else works for them.

Partiality is very easily morphed into contempt, to me. Particularly if arguments become about who's right or who's wrong, or who's stupid or who's smart, or who knows or who doesn't know.

Try never to let the way you hope things turn out become the ONLY thing you see happening, fellas.

I sleep a lot easier at night that way (along with my wife....who you should see, by the way...!)

 

I don't think they are lying. I think there is legitimate tension between McGrady and various people in the Rockets organization. The extent of that tension, or how pervasive the dislike is towards McGrady, may be exaggerated by some of the sources. At least I hope so.

But if we're to believe those you cite in (1), then we must question whether the decisions are purely based on basketball factors. I don't know if McGrady is ready to play; perhaps he's not. But I'm bothered by the possibility that he is basically ready to play in-game, and the Rockets would prefer to keep him out indefinitely as some type of punishment. That's the vibe I'm getting from these insiders.

I can't deny that. I understand why he may have rubbed people the wrong way as a teammate and employee.

Maybe you're right. I'm not going to speculate any further on what's really going on at this point. I'll just let things play out.

 

I really don't get this idea of "let's blow up the team because of some guy who's never been out of the first round" might no longer be part of the Rockets's future.

 

I have a feeling that this thing is going to really blow up. Especially after what tracy posted on his skillzlab website. It could get really messy. Strap on ya seat belts....

 

I like the "team" but I wouldnt' mind replacing Yao/Tracy. If trading those two is "blowing it up" then yes I support that.

I think you are just getting caught up in wording.

 

If you are referring to me as being among them,that is far from the truth. I don't think McGrady has any future role with Houston. We aren't going to win big without getting a more than adequate replacement for him and even Yao.

Getting into the playoffs itself will be a great achievement,but we aren't likely to go very far.
No one will give anything of note for Tracy or Yao,IMO and our 1st round pick won't be high enough to compensate for the lack of a star either.
If you feel differently,that's fine with me.

 

...I'd like a bag of Doritios....

 

Saleem, you are right but we can always trade assets to get a higher pick or a star. (Which I think we should and will do in the future) I was an advocate of tanking early, but this team fights. They are used to winning and I want that to carry over to next year.

 

I trust organization, but we also witnessed how they did landry the night of free agency.

 

Hey genius, if you are going to put me in your signature, at least learn to spell, you are making our college look bad.

DD

 

How was landry done? being offered up in trades? I really don't know, what happened?

 

Fo sho :grin:

I was typing with the 3 day old chillaxin

 

I'm against tanking and I like the guys. I think our trade assets have small contracts. That makes it harder to get star talent. Secondly,it will result in the breakup of the budding young nucleus to some extent. A higher pick might seem more realistic,if we can package a couple of them,but that will require some luck.

Realistically,we will have to see what is available around the trading deadline. If something turns up which can help us in the future,DM should look into it.