[Yahoo] Rockets don't want McGrady back, continue to try to trade him

His physical handicap, I think would have a lot to do with playing basketball in the NBA, but now if he's really healthy Adelman could implement him in the offense with his ball-handling, his ability to shoot off screens, ability to attack the basket, or even his ability to finish at the rim by using him off of back cuts, so I think he can adapt to this system, but he's never been in this system healthy since we were on the streak.

 

That's a great post and required reading for anybody unfamiliar with all the drama that took place last year that lead to this point. As a Tracy supporter in this situation, I can assure you that I haven't forgotten about that. I am just a firm believer that if we intend to trade him, showcasing his body and talents is a MUST. Unless, of course, we're content with trading him for Eddy Curry. If you have the stomach for that -- rock on. I would prefer keeping him, letting him walk and collecting insurance rather than trade him for the type of garbage that we have been and will be offered if we continue our current course of action.

 

That's because he's blatantly refused to buy into that system each and every year Rick's been coach. Last year made it plain that McGrady is unwilling to be coached or mold his game in any way.

This is the guy that was killing the team on both ends and had the gall to complain about his touches on the most talented roster he'd ever played for in his career.

Now he's out to audition for one last max contract. He's not interested in anything Adelman has to say - he wants 20 shots a game in clear outs.

 

really?

he bought into it when adelman first started here. he was the only one.
he bought into it during the 22 game winning streak.

if you're going to use last year as your main argument, then you're assuming he'll hurt and limping all over again. tracy SUCKED last year. he was extremely frustrated and that is not who he is as a player when he is HEALTHY. he was a terrible basketball player last year for the most part, terrible.

and to your last point, i think tracy is realistic enough to know he's not going to get a max contract. nobody gives 30 year olds with a history of injuries a max contract. he needs to play to improve his image as a basketball player and show he is still a team player--a playmaker that was highly regarded by everyone in the league.

if he's going out just to jack up 20 shots, wouldn't you think other GMs see it also? if he does it and cost team wins? you know if a guy is a ballhog or a team player right away. a healthy mcgrady has always been a highly regarded team player in this league.

audition for a max contract? that's absurd. even if tracy had a brain of a 5 year old, he would know better than that.

 

Its not that i want him gone DD and i on't interject battier in every thread either. I just think this team is 3 yrs away with a good overhaul. # yrs from now can be quick and seemles if you just go ahead and admit and roll with it. holding on to glory that never was is futile and only makes it harder to swallow. I look at Utah,portland,and orlando as my examples. Utah didn't keep any old limited guys once they let malone go and stocton retired. Not only that, they didn't save money for a max player, instead, they got 2 good young players and kept adding to the mix. Now they didn't win a title and only made it to the conf finals, but they still have a young team and will be contending for some time. portland did pretty much the same thing once they got rid of all the jailblazers. They gave away randolph because he was a headcase and thy kept drafting young players and hit on pretty much all their drafts picks with oden coming around. Through all that, they're contending and still have a hge growth gap. Orlando after drafting howard, they continued to draft young guys and traded the pieces they got in the mcgrady trade for shorter ones. When they though they were right there, they signed lewis. After signing hedo for mle and he bolted, they traded for carter with the young talent they drafted in courtney lee.

What i'm saying is morey and managment should trust their draft board and scouts as they do now. Continue to buy and develop young talent and dump the injury prone and declining talent. Then when they are truly 1 guy away unlike last time, go get him. The path we're headed on is that of being mediocre. I'm not saying winning 40-50 games is anything to be ashamed of, but the hardest step is that next one. The next one requires impact player to make impact plays. I would rather play brooks,chase,ariza,scola/landry and whomever at center and let them fill their way out. The one thing about the rockets fan base and you can see it in the home arena, if you're not truly a contender, people wont show. They can say its a sellout, but then there will be gaps in the lower bowl from people staying at home or giving the tickets away and those people not coming. I'm just ready to get to the end and see young guys accomplish things and feel their way through vs seeing yao come back then go down again or tracy come back and go down again also.

 

IIRC, there was a video this year where he spoke about being back up there with LeBron, Wade, etc...

 

Fair enough, I am not ready, I am willing to give Yao one more chance....

DD

 

he wants to be highly regarded as a basketball player again. you don't do that by just jacking up 20 shots and calling for clearouts, and costing team wins.

he was highly regarded because he was one of the best playmakers in the league. and i'm sure with this team (IF he does indeed play again), it won't be his scoring that will impress other teams that he's trying to audition for. it's his ability to make other guys better (like allowing ariza to shoot easier shots, allowing brooks to do what he does best, shane to get more open looks, hayes to get more open looks....)

 

Therein lies a good portion of the problem.

DD

 

No, his system didn't fit our players, yao was of no use on the high post, battier didn't cut to the basket, rafer coudn't create or shoot, so it was back to the old offense with the starters.

He was killing the team because he was injuried, and complained about touches because we were losing.

I think T-mac is more worried about winning, I know he wants to get that burden off his back about not getting out of the first round, and Im sure the contract is also in the back of mind but that's any player, look at how good ariza played in the playoffs.

 

Then what? I mean really, i know you like to say the rockets can be like the old lakers with kareem and i do think there is some merit to that in a way, but how does it affect the offense? I know for a fact that Yao helps the interior defense bigtime because he clogs the paint and takes up so much space, but what does that do for the driving angles? What does it do guarding in space? I'm not saing yao wouldn't help, i'm just saying how does it corresponds to what the other guys are used to or good at especially brooks?

 

Good job basing it off last year. I guess Yao Ming doesn't fit Adelmans system because he isn't a good passer, and he doesnt run the court well, NOOB.

 

but that also means he's an unselfish player. there is no reason to believe he will try to get his own stats and forget about the team after what he has seen the team do without him so far.

he saw the same thing 2 years ago when he was out with injury. he asw the team finally was able to win without him. he came back and fit right in.

your (or other posters) problem is you think tmac will come back, jack up shots, get his stats, don' care about chemistry...

 

I understand you point. You are talking about personality chemistry. I know it exists. But it still doesn't make the discussion about T-Mac's game and his physical health relevant. It's not about whether T-Mac's playing style would mesh with the current team because you can only be sure when you play him.

Besides, I think the importance of personal relationship among teammates is overblown. Kobe and Shaq won several championship together while they didn't like each other at all. As durvasa pointed out earlier, Kobe was one of the biggest pricks in the league, but once they are winning, his doucheness is nowhere mentioned anymore.

Again, if the sources are right, then it seems that Adelman has no interest in finding out whether TMac's game can fit in the current team. They just don't want him.

Of course, Adelman knows a whole lot more about basketball than I do, and I haven't seen TMac in action during practice like Adelman has. So I can't argue with him. But I strongly doubt that whatever player(s) we can realistically get back from trading TMac can make this team better than a healthy TMac would be able to, whatver style they play. But that's just my opinion.

 

I want us to re-build period. Yao is better than Brook Lopez,even though the latter fits in better with a running team. I also feel that the risk of re-injury for Yao and the difficulty of him coming back to anywhere near his level of play last year makes it highly improbable for him and the rest of the team to win it all.
I also feel that Yao's trading value has gone down appreciably because of his injuries and getting Brook Lopez in the future for him would be quite a good deal.

Brook Lopez by himself can help but getting an unprotected lottery pick like Utah or a solid big who can defend to help Lopez(if he becomes a Rocket) and to ease the pressure off Chuck and Carl is very important.

I like Luis,but neither he nor Shane can help us the long run unless we get a replacement for McGrady. Shane could still fit in better than Luis,who would become redundant if we got another big for Tracy. I'm not sold on Brooks as a future PG. I like his scoring,but I would like to see a true starter at the 1,with Lowry as a backup. Chase is a good fit,who can help us and Ariza too,if he isn't forced to do too much. I'm not against Adelman's experimenting,however Trevor can't go very far as the #1 or 2 option.
If we can get a good backup center in this upcoming draft,I would be very happy.
Getting a disgruntled or fading star for the best possible package isn't going to help us. A poison pill that comes along with a good player may be harmful for the future as well.

 

tmac1, I'll respectfully agree to disagree.

 

When the celebrating is done, I wonder who your next target will be...

Yao? Ariza? Battier?

I think it could be any 3 of those.

 

i agree :grin: . i knew he was going to be one of the top centers eventually, but man, he's going to challenge dwight howard next year.

 

Rockets are the third youngest team in the NBA.

 

There was pressure from the team, the fans, and the media for McGrady to play. But he was evidently not right physically. He was clearly in pain. The Rockets wanted him to play, and told him he can play through his pain and he will strengthen over time. McGrady wanted to give it a shot. We all look back at last year and conclude that McGrady was not helping the team win with the way he was playing. But now you want blame him for actually recognizing this mid-November and thinking its best to step away to rehab? Why?

This is simply not how it was reported in the media. Maybe you have some special insider knowledge, but publicly that's not how it went down. Adelman was frustrated over the uncertainty of when McGrady would and would not play. So it was decided that they'd schedule it so that McGrady plays only one game on back-to-backs. That was the idea, which somehow got lost in people's need to find fault with McGrady.

http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=2008_4683253

[rquoter]
Rockets coach Rick Adelman said there is no set plan about which game he would skip, but that the decision might be based on the schedule. He said he has never dealt with that sort of situation, but that it would allow greater certainty about who would be available to play. [/rquoter]

As for "the mid-season training camp", again that was a group decision. Both he and the Rockets decided that the experiment of him shuffling in and out of the lineup was not working.

http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=2009_4689344

[rquoter]
Weeks of guesswork about who would play each night will be ended, as McGrady, 29, sits out to go through the offseason conditioning routine for his left knee he could not perform after his May 6 surgery; Artest, 29, seeks a second opinion on "a stress reaction" in his right ankle.

"We know exactly who we'll have play, I hope, the next few weeks, and as we move forward," Rockets coach Rick Adelman said. "The whole point is to get people back to the level where they can be efficient on the court. Tracy's had it here and there but it's been tough. If this helps get him over the hump, then it's worth the process. He needs to do more work so he can push through, especially conditioning-wise. Hopefully, this will do it.

McGrady met with Adelman and general manager Daryl Morey after Saturday's win against the Knicks. On Friday, Adelman had said the team would need to consider ending the experiment in which McGrady played only one game in back-to-backs. McGrady said before Saturday's game that changing lineups was hurting the team and that he might need to sit out until he could come back strong enough to play better without missing games.

...
[/rquoter]

McGrady dictates his return? Again, no. Adelman said when McGrady is ready, he'll play. McGrady rehabbed took a couple weeks off, rehabbed hard by all reports, and felt he was ready to play. The doctors and the team also believed he was better. Adelman said days prior to McGrady's stated return that he believed he'd be returning soon:

http://blogs.chron.com/nba/2009/01/tempest_in_a_d_cup_yao_ming_de.html

[rquoter]Rockets coach Rick Adelman said that he thinks McGrady will be back if there are no setbacks after Saturday's workout. In addition to the practice, McGrady did some running. Artest is more toward questionable than probable.[/rquoter]

http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=2009_4693933

[rquoter]
McGrady, who has been out since Jan. 9 to work on his conditioning, practiced and added extra running as Rockets coach Rick Adelman made plans for McGrady to return to the starting lineup.

Artest, out since Jan. 7 with a bruised right ankle, is questionable.

"If everything goes good, he's expected to play," Adelman said about McGrady. "We'll see about Ron. You're going to have to work them in, No. 1. It's going to change the rotation. It's going to cut minutes down on people who have been playing. Some might not play at all. We're just going to have to work our way through it.

"I think if Tracy is ready to go, we'll probably start him. We'll start him right off the bat because then when Ron is ready to play, he's coming off the bench and it's like we figured our rotation to be. Then we got to figure out what to do with Von (Wafer) and Brent (Barry). It seems you plug them right in, but we've been playing without them so long now, it's not going to be that easy." [/rquoter]

After this point, we all know the deal. McGrady looked alright for a few games. It didn't last. He misses the dunk. He feels he needs to get another opinion. He'd told that microfracture surgery is recommended. We, as fans, are completely taken by surprise, because throughout the season the Rockets repeatedly maintained that McGrady could play through it and it would eventually get better. Eventually, the Rockets have to admit that microfracture surgery was always an option. And while early in the season the Rockets believed it was too drastic an option to take, it made sense after months of ineffective play.

That last paragraph is, in my opinion, a skewed perspective of last year, as I showed above. Last year was not handled properly by either side. It's not fair to say McGrady was dictating everything. He's not a great judge of his own readiness to play, granted. But the Rockets were no better.

And let's not paint the picture that McGrady is at the same point physically now that he was a year ago. Every party involved acknowledges that McGrady is physically better than where he was this time last year. Pain is no longer the issue.