[Yahoo!] Carmelo privately expressing more enthusiasm to join Rockets than Knicks

ASidd_1990 · Aug 30, 2010

DaDakota said:

I would say that Artest was an ancillary character on that team and that Yao and Brooks and Scola were more important.......

So, if you replace Artest with Battier/Cbud that is a better team...not to mention we now have Kevin Martin.

So, while it is true that no one knows whether this team is good enough as is.......no one knows it isn't good enough either....

Though a lot of folks on here will pretend that you can not win it all without a Superstar, even though most people are not named superstars until after they win a ring and looking back is far easier than looking forward.

Am I saying this team is good enough "as is" well no, but I for one, would like to find out how good it is "BEFORE" making adjustments.

Does that make sense.......?

DD
Click to expand...

LeBron hasn't won a ring, does that not make him a superstar? How about Yao? Dwight Howard? Deron Williams? Chris Paul? Dirk? Steve Nash?

Going back further. Was Charles Barkely not a superstar? He didn't win a ring. How bout Malone? Stockton? Ewing? These players are all first ballot HOF's which is much better than being a superstar.

RocketRick · Aug 30, 2010

DaDakota said:

So, if you replace Artest with Battier/Cbud that is a better team...
Click to expand...

Ron Artest's NBA Championship ring says "Hi"

NJRocket · Aug 30, 2010

DaDakota said:

I would say that Artest was an ancillary character on that team and that Yao and Brooks and Scola were more important.......

So, if you replace Artest with Battier/Cbud that is a better team...not to mention we now have Kevin Martin.

So, while it is true that no one knows whether this team is good enough as is.......no one knows it isn't good enough either....

Though a lot of folks on here will pretend that you can not win it all without a Superstar, even though most people are not named superstars until after they win a ring and looking back is far easier than looking forward.

Am I saying this team is good enough "as is" well no, but I for one, would like to find out how good it is "BEFORE" making adjustments.

Does that make sense.......?

DD
Click to expand...

we arent replacing Artest w Battier and C Bud....we had Battier back then too

what we are hoping to do is start the season with a core of melo and Yao....add to that a similar but maybe more experienced cast as we had back in "09, and we are probably better off. Also....if we end up making a deal for Melo, Iggy or Granger et al...Id rather have a full season of them playing together going into the playoffs as opposed to getting them at the deadline and only having 2 months

DaDakota · Aug 30, 2010

NJRocket said:

we arent replacing Artest w Battier and C Bud....we had Battier back then too

what we are hoping to do is start the season with a core of melo and Yao....add to that a similar but maybe more experienced cast as we had back in "09, and we are probably better off.
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NJ,

With all due respect, if you compare the starters this year with that team.

Yao
Scola
Battier
Martin
Brooks

Yao
Scola
Battier
Artest
Brooks

This year's team looks better to me than that one did, more balanced....you certainly have better offense....a more confident Brooks & Scola, Battier being the defensive stallwart, and then you add in Martin a much more efficient player than Ron Artest and you are a much more balanced squad.

And then you add in the bench of Lowry, Cbud, Miller, Hill, Hayes....and this team is miles better than that one.

I think this team matches up very well as is with any team in the league, are they the favorites? No, but they are in the conversation...IMO.

NJRocket said:

Also....if we end up making a deal for Melo, Iggy or Granger et al...Id rather have a full season of them playing together going into the playoffs as opposed to getting them at the deadline and only having 2 months
Click to expand...

Yes, I can see that point of it all, and I would not mind Iggy or Granger but not Melo.

DD

ASidd_1990 · Aug 30, 2010

You really can't compare the 08-09 squad to our current one.

That squad was the perfect mesh of offense and defense. We were in the top 5 in defense that year and had a younger Battier.

A Martin-Brooks backcourt will put up 40 points a night but also give up 50 if you let them.

Battier is in a steep decline and I question his ankles. I think he will improve with Yao back, but not by that much.

DaDakota · Aug 30, 2010

ASidd_1990 said:

You really can't compare the 08-09 squad to our current one.
Click to expand...

Sure you can, I just did.

ASidd_1990 said:

That squad was the perfect mesh of offense and defense. We were in the top 5 in defense that year and had a younger Battier.
Click to expand...

It was far from a perfect mesh, Artest was screwing it up all year long, he never fit....although he did jack up a lot of shots....and hustled all year...we are better now without him.

ASidd_1990 said:

A Martin-Brooks backcourt will put up 40 points a night but also give up 50 if you let them.
Click to expand...

Not with Yao at the rim.

ASidd_1990 said:

Battier is in a steep decline and I question his ankles. I think he will improve with Yao back, but not by that much.
Click to expand...

No, he isn't..he is 31 years old, and funneled his guy to the middle as he always does last year, but Yao was not there to block shots.

DD

CheezeyBoy22 · Aug 30, 2010

Are you guys still going at it? Give it a rest my CF friends... For the sake of the board... Give it a rest.

In other news... Team USA won.

DaDakota · Aug 30, 2010

CheezeyBoy22 said:

Are you guys still going at it? Give it a rest my CF friends... For the sake of the board... Give it a rest.

In other news... Team USA won.
Click to expand...

Who?

DD

ASidd_1990 · Aug 30, 2010

I know it's Bleacher Report, but still, I felt a little better reading this article.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...trades-rockets-could-engineer-to-land-anthony

Masai Ujiri, the Denver Nuggets new GM hire, just walked into basketball operations hell. Relentless fire and brimstone, doomsday talk has enveloped the franchise with 2011 free agency’s crown jewel. Carmelo Anthony wants out, multiple reports suggest, and the Nuggets must weigh trading him now versus losing him for nothing when the market opens.

A three-year, $65 million max extension remains on the table. Anthony can forego free agency—with a league-wide Armageddon, also known as a lockout or work stoppage, looming—and sign it anytime before July 1.

David Stern and his owner buddies want the new collective bargaining agreement to mandate shorter contracts and lower player salaries. No one with sense would criticize Anthony for choosing security over uncertainty. He starred in the 2009 Western Conference Finals, and the Nuggets did not hesitate to execute blockbuster deals for Allen Iverson and Chauncey Billups—reasons for him to stay put.

If, however, Ujiri cannot reconcile the franchise’s fractured relationship with Anthony, he should keep Houston Rockets GM Daryl Morey on speed dial and broker a transaction.

Yahoo Sports! NBA writer Adrian Wojnarowski suggested in a column last week, via an “unnamed source,” that Anthony would prefer Houston, not New York as a landing spot. Sports Illustrated’s Chris Mannix cited another anonymous source who said ‘Melo would welcome an extension from the Rockets, should Denver consign him to Houston.

No GM in the Western Conference boasts more tradable assets than Morey. No franchise yearns for a perimeter superstar more than the Rockets, given Tracy McGrady’s forsaken stint alongside Yao Ming. A Denver-Houston trade partnership makes sense for several reasons.

What the Nuggets Want

Billups’ 34-year-old body boasts an NBA odometer that includes a Motown championship stop, FIBA competition, and loads of paramount postseason contests. His experience, gamesmanship, and veteran know-how make him an attractive buy for any title contender. Keeping his $13 million salary on the books makes sense for Denver only if Anthony stays until his contract expires July 1, 2011.

The Nuggets sans Anthony will not challenge for a Finals or playoff berth. Billups is a win-now player, not a rebuilding piece. Even if Ujiri opts not to package Anthony and “Mr. Big Shot,” he will want to secure a younger starting point guard with potential. Denver acquired Ty Lawson in a 2009 draft night trade with the Minnesota Timberwolves, and George Karl might prefer to cajole the former Tar Heel in an expanded reserve role.

No team’s front office can expect to net equal value when it dumps its superstar and franchise face. The Nuggets, however, should demand an All-Star caliber talent in return.

Owner Stan Kroenke will seek financial flexibility, often a euphemism for the boss wanting to slash payroll and pocket some extra cash. A combination of expiring contracts, though, would afford Ujiri the cap space necessary to orchestrate a proper roster remodel. First-round draft picks in 2011 and 2012 would also accelerate the dreaded overhaul.

The Nuggets might also want to jettison perennial malcontent and coaching headache J.R. Smith. The vainglorious assassin has resided in Karl’s doghouse more than any canine, and his propensity to mope has him on a short leash. His expiring $6.7 million contract remains valuable to Ujiri as one of many precursors to cap space, but Smith’s volatile temperament may earn him a speedy ticket out of town.

What Denver wants matters more than Anthony’s own wishes. No amount of pouting, back channel maneuvering, or outright demands will change that. If the Kroenkes and Ujiri can stomach sending Anthony within the conference (and that may become a significant issue), The Rockets could provide felicity for both sides, and here’s why.

A Look at the Rockets’ Trade Assets

Aaron Brooks—One of the NBA’s five fastest players comes cheap at just $2 million. Even if the Nuggets did not retain Brooks’ Bird Rights, several trades proposed below would impart Denver the cap space necessary to lock him up long term before his contract terminates next summer. He represents the Nuggets’ best chance to solicit a Billups replacement via an Anthony deal.

Kevin Martin—The ultra-efficient scoring guard boasts one of the best combined shooting percentages—free throw, three-point, and overall field goal accuracy—of the previous five years. He remains on the cusp of stardom, and at 27, still has a year or two to fulfill that unrealized potential. His bloated deal, with three years left of eight-figure payments, makes him a less attractive acquisition. Morey also dealt fan favorite Carl Landry to score Martin’s services, one reason not to jettison him after one half season.

Jermaine Taylor—The UCF product will struggle to earn regular playing time in Rick Adelman’s rotation. He will make less than $2 million in the two years remaining on his rookie deal. Given the athleticism and scoring prowess he flexed in spurts last year, he qualifies as cheap labor and a potential gem.

Jordan Hill—The New York Knicks selected the Arizona forward with the eighth pick in the 2009 draft. In his brief tenure as a Rocket, Hill has flashed the stunning athleticism and wiry frame that made him such a tantalizing NBA prospect. With one year and $2.6 million left on his contract, he also delivers at a bargain rate. As a youngster with years to develop, he ranks as a low-risk, high-reward procurement.

Shane Battier—His $7.3 million expiring contract would afford Denver cap pliancy, especially if paired with Jefferies’ similar deal. Battier is a winning locker room influence, a sure-fire spectator paramour, a passable long-distance shooter, and a stingy, studious defender with a few years of dynamite coverage left in his career.

Jared Jefferies—His $6.8 million expiring contract would entice the Nuggets for similar reasons. A capable, sedulous defender, Jefferies would do more in Denver than just wipe salary off the books come July 1.

Chase Budinger—Morey and Adelman paltered Trevor Ariza without hesitation because they remain high on the Arizona guard-forward. He might rank as the Rockets’ best dunker, a ravishing revelation for a squad loaded with high-motor athletes. He shoots the three at a respectable rate but must ameliorate his free throw shooting and decision making. He projects as Adelman’s reserve small forward, even after an insufficient Vegas Summer League showing. I did not include him in any prospective exchanges for reasons that will become apparent below.

Trevor Ariza trade exception—This $6.3 million return works like cash. Morey has one year to spend it or ship it somewhere else. He told the Houston Chronicle that Owner Leslie Alexander authorized him to utilize it if he can cultivate more elite talent. Anthony, without question, qualifies as elite talent.

The New York Knicks’ picks—To obtain more cap space, this summer’s holy grail, Donnie Walsh surrendered a 2012 first rounder and pick swap in 2011 that could pay handsome dividends. The 2011 pick is top one protected, meaning the Rockets could not trade draft positions if the Knicks won the lottery. The 2012 pick is top five protected.

If Amar’e Stoudemire and the Knicks, however, miss the playoffs and land any selection slot from two to 14 in 2011, the Rockets (or Nuggets if this helps engineer a transaction) can barter. Say New York falls to the lottery and selects fifth or sixth and the playoff bound Rockets reach the postseason and pick somewhere in the 20s. That bandy becomes an ultra-valuable roster augmentation tool.

Why the Rockets are Window Shopping

Anthony can fill it up like a cement truck and do so in a hurry. Remember his 33-point quarter two seasons ago? The NBA’s finest pure scorer represents the perimeter muscle and starpower the Rockets thought they had secured in McGrady. He delivers in the clutch and ranks as one of the deadliest post players in the league. He bombards the rim and can earn more free throw trips by himself than all the opponent’s players combined. He plays stingy, trenchant defense when the mood suits him.

Adelman and Morey think Martin and Brooks possess some of the above qualities. They would trade those two in a nanosecond, though, for someone who has proven he bears those gifts.

Alexander’s willingness to spend liberally should also give Morey the confidence to think he can nail down Anthony with a lucrative extension. Unlike with Stoudemire, a full or half-season rental would prove worth the risk of losing him via free agency.

If Morey channeled John Cusack’s character in Say Anything to woo Chris Bosh and Marcin Gortat, he should play The Police’s “Every Breath You Take” on loop in his Anthony pursuit. Yes, Mr. Ujiri, he’ll be watching you.

The Untouchables

I decided not to include any assets off-limits today in this discussion. Morey signed Luis Scola, Kyle Lowry, and Brad Miller as free agents. He cannot trade them for three months, or until Dec. 15, whichever comes first.

The GM can deal away Courtney Lee, whom he fetched in a four-team trade in early August, after October 11 in a one-for-one exchange but not in a multi-player package. It makes little sense, though, for Morey to dangle the adhesive defender and perimeter contributor he has coveted since draft night in 2008.

To snatch Lee, he surrendered role player extraordinaire Trevor Ariza, billed last summer as a project and a key rotation cog for the next five years. So much for that.

Yao Ming remains the franchise’s foundation. Morey and Alexander do not want to ship him out, and the Denver front office should oppose a star swap involving a center who has suffered debilitating injuries in five straight seasons.

Yao, like Anthony, becomes a free agent next summer. Does Ujiri want to kick-off his thin-ice tenure by exchanging a player reluctant to sign a max extension for a street clothes-prone big guy who might harbor the same stay-in-Colorado resentment?

No way.

The Proposed Deals

1. The Rockets get: F Carmelo Anthony

The Nuggets get: SG Kevin Martin, F Jared Jefferies, and 2011 draft Ppck

In the simplest scenario, the Nuggets would take back Martin’s monstrous deal and rapid-fire scoring faculty, Jefferies’ expiring contract, and the right to swap picks with the Knicks should the conditions outlined above come to fruition. This trade seems unlikely, since, it seems, any discussion would start with Brooks.

2. The Rockets get: F Carmelo Anthony

The Nuggets get: PG Aaron Brooks, Trevor Ariza trade exception, F Jared Jefferies, 2011 draft pick and SG Jermaine Taylor

In another “just Anthony” deal, Ujiri and Karl would obtain a Billups surrogate to pair with Lawson, a valuable spending chip, a potential lottery talent, and a bargain basement, athletic guard with mouthwatering upside. Lowry would take the reins as the Rockets' full-time starter, while Morey would need to pursue a backup point. Can Lowry start on a productive playoff team, much less a championship-caliber one?

3. The Rockets get: F Carmelo Anthony, G-F J.R. Smith

The Nuggets get: PG Aaron Brooks, SG Kevin Martin, F Jared Jefferies, F-C Jordan Hill, F Mike Harris, a 2011 draft pick, and SG Jermaine Taylor

In this more complex scheme, Denver would dump Smith and land both Brooks and Martin, a readymade starting backcourt on a playoff contender. Ujiri would welcome some financial flexibility, and Hill and Taylor’s young legs and potential. Harris is a throwaway addition—but by no means a useless player—to make the money work.

4. The Rockets get: F Carmelo Anthony, PG Chauncey Billups

The Nuggets get: PG Aaron Brooks, SG Kevin Martin, SF Shane Battier, F Jared Jefferies or Trevor Ariza trade exception, F Jordan Hill, 2011 or 2012 draft pick, and SG Jermaine Taylor

The final two proposals would wipe out all or most of the Rockets’ trade assets. Morey would do it if he could attain Anthony. This scenario supposes that Denver wants to package Anthony and Billups, not Anthony and Smith. Since Anthony and Billups make $17 million and $13 million, Morey would need to submit all of the above pieces to make salaries match.

5. The Rockets get: F Carmelo Anthony, PG Chauncey Billups, and SF J.R. Smith

The Nuggets get: PG Aaron Brooks, SG Kevin Martin, SF Shane Battier, F Jared Jefferies, F Jordan Hill, 2011 or 2012 Draft Pick, Trevor Ariza trade exception, and SG Jermaine Taylor

This “kitchen sink” scenario supposes Ujiri wants to package all three players in an Anthony exchange. It takes a lot of Houston assets to match the $30 million Morey would get back in this deal. Again, I think Morey would do it to fetch a performer of Anthony’s caliber.
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DaDakota · Aug 30, 2010

A decent article but you can not combine a trade exception with any player as outlined in scenario 2, 4 and 5.

Making one wonder about the overall ability of the author overall.

DD

Ballin_Rocket · Aug 30, 2010

The article makes it sound too easy. There's probably little to no chance that we get the deal done without involving a 3rd team.

My hopes sink everyday we're not mentioned in an article
Let's just hope that Denver finally decides that it makes no difference wheather they trade Melo to an Eastern or Western Conference team since they are about to rebuild for 3-5 years...

ASidd_1990 · Aug 30, 2010

DaDakota said:

A decent article but you can not combine a trade exception with any player as outlined in scenario 2, 4 and 5.

Making one wonder about the overall ability of the author overall.

DD
Click to expand...

Your correct but I think if it's in a seperate deal, I think you can.

The only players on Nuggets' roster that could fit in our TPE are JR Smith or Chris Anderson.

TheDreams · Aug 30, 2010

ASidd_1990 said:

Your correct but I think if it's in a seperate deal, I think you can.

The only players on Nuggets' roster that could fit in our TPE are JR Smith or Chris Anderson.
Click to expand...

As DD stated scenarios 2, 4, and 5 would not work. The author doesn't seem to realize you can't combine the TE. According to the ESPN trade machine, JR Smith makes 6.7 million next year so we wouldn't be able to get him in a separate deal.

topfive · Aug 30, 2010

DaDakota said:

A decent article but you can not combine a trade exception with any player as outlined in scenario 2, 4 and 5.

Making one wonder about the overall ability of the author overall.

DD
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Not to mention his misuse of "palter."

Just sayin'.

DasouthDakota · Aug 30, 2010

DaDakota said:

Who?

DD
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Why do you hate Melo so much? Seriously?

He's a to 5 player, who wants to come to Houston, and plays a position of need.

What is not to like about Melo?

RocketRick · Aug 30, 2010

DasouthDakota said:

Why do you hate Melo so much? Seriously?

He's a to 5 player, who wants to come to Houston, and plays a position of need.

What is not to like about Melo?
Click to expand...

Are you serious? Half this thread is DD saying what he does not like about Melo. Do not feed the Poster wh*re known as DD.

clutch citizen · Aug 30, 2010

DaDakota said:

NJ,

With all due respect, if you compare the starters this year with that team.

Yao
Scola
Battier
Martin
Brooks

Yao
Scola
Battier
Artest
Brooks

This year's team looks better to me than that one did, more balanced....you certainly have better offense....a more confident Brooks & Scola, Battier being the defensive stallwart, and then you add in Martin a much more efficient player than Ron Artest and you are a much more balanced squad.

And then you add in the bench of Lowry, Cbud, Miller, Hill, Hayes....and this team is miles better than that one.

I think this team matches up very well as is with any team in the league, are they the favorites? No, but they are in the conversation...IMO.

Yes, I can see that point of it all, and I would not mind Iggy or Granger but not Melo.

DD
Click to expand...

Artest is more of a game changer than Martin. Actually, I'm not even sure I would classify Martin as a game changer.

If those two line ups played each other, the Artest line up would win.

Don't believe me? Let the CPU play against each other on NBA 2K10.

houston19519 · Aug 30, 2010

DasouthDakota said:

Why do you hate Melo so much? Seriously?

He's a to 5 player, who wants to come to Houston, and plays a position of need.

What is not to like about Melo?
Click to expand...

I respect DD on this forums, but he needs to stop drinking

No disrespect DD

Hard Rock · Aug 30, 2010

DaDakota said:

A decent article but you can not combine a trade exception with any player as outlined in scenario 2, 4 and 5.

Making one wonder about the overall ability of the author overall.

DD
Click to expand...

thy only way is if we send the T.E. to a 3rd team for a player Denver likes. it could be a player w/ expiring contract but it won't be like cash like the article states tho.

coachbadlee · Aug 30, 2010

TheDreams said:

As DD stated scenarios 2, 4, and 5 would not work. The author doesn't seem to realize you can't combine the TE. According to the ESPN trade machine, JR Smith makes 6.7 million next year so we wouldn't be able to get him in a separate deal.
Click to expand...

When you click on his profile it shows that he is making $6,171,426 in 2010. Does that mean that they would have to do a deal before the deadline in order to be able to use the TE for Smith?

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