Xbox 360 pricing confirmed (bad news, IMO)

Um...how about the one that I've been talking about all along:

And remember, I'm not necessarily arguing against the price tag or even the multiple SKU's to a degree. I'm arguing about MS promising a HD (and other stuff) in every system. Judging by this spec sheet from MS, as well the other articles, MS misled us all.

I don't like their reviews and I don't like some of their features. I do like their news reports and special reports on the news. Guess where I got the original link from.

And while I used IGN as an example, the other sites basically said the same things. Again, these sites weren't posting this stuff for the heck of it. When it came to games, a price, and even the possibility of multiple SKU's, these sites sounded like they were guessing. When it came to the HD being standard in every console, these sites seemed certain of that decision. Again, I wonder where they got that "guess" from.

Well, since they were saying the same thing at the time, IGN and others didn't get the "official word" before MS said it. When it came to all the facts in those articles (what the Xbox 360 would support, the CPU+GPU specs, etc), IGN had to get them from somewhere. Either MS gave them the info, or like I said, they took it from the spec sheet that I gave earlier.

And again, MS didn't seem to have a problem with the biggest gaming sites reporting that the HD would come standard. To use you preview impressions analogy, if IGN mentioned in a preview of Halo 3 that the game would be over 400 hours long, I'm sure Bungie would be pissed...unless the game was over 400 hours long of course.

While it may not have been Microsoft's fault (I doubt that though), these articles did mislead people. People may have done this "on their own intentions," but when the biggest gaming sites state certain things as fact, when they aren't, then a lot of people will be mislead. And that would lead to people being pissed off once MS announced the real plan. If MS didn't promise the HD as standard (which they did), I think they would have liked to avoid the future negative feelings towards them and ask these sites to change their articles. But they didn't, and these articles mislead people.

And FWIW, I find it a little funny that you think these articles are misleading and unreliable since they aren't from MS, while your articles, with "sources close to the company," about multiple SKU's led you to expect two SKU's (one w/HD, one w/o). Those articles were much more speculative about that matter, yet you still thought that "...the HDD being optional was expected," because of these articles.

Well, I didn't think the spec sheet lied either until MS announced otherwise. The sheet says that the HD (and other things) would be "standard with every Xbox 360 system." Not with just the premium package. EVERY XBOX 360 SYSTEM. I don't see how you can spin that any other way. This is why most people are pissed. Take that sheet away (and the articles that were probably based on it), then not so many people are pissed. If a ~$400 price tag should have been expected for a next-gen console, then the price isn't what pissed off those people. It was the fact that MS said one thing and did another. There was even a thread at GAF asking why it was ok for MS to lie to us.

If you still can't see why myself and others would react this way to the MS announcement, then there's nothing else I can really do to convince you otherwise. We've argued for way too long on such a stupid topic, and I don't want to continue it anymore. You can continue thinking your way, and I (along with the other "fanboys" at GAF, B3D, and other boards) will continue to think the other way.

 

I was going to try to ignore this all, but if you are going to try to attack me and say things that aren't true, then I feel like I have to reply.

Yeah, I've never said anything good about MS..except for the praise I gave for GoW, the controller, PGR3, Oblivion, their Japanese efforts (99 Nights), their GPU, etc. Besides that though, nothing but bad for them. In fact, I'm not sure why someone mistook for a MS fanboy once since I'm CLEARLY a Sony fanboy. I couldn't be happier that Sony made a crappy looking controller and may charge me $400 for a console w/o a HD. Once they start showing off their plans for online play and show some games running on PS3 hardware, I'll praise everything they do (even if the online plan is 10x worse that Xbox Live, and the games look nothing like the footage at E3). Yep, I love every one of Sony's decisions.

And I've said this before, but list some of the broken promises and misleading statements coming directly from Sony. I can think of maybe a couple within the past 2 generations or so. On the other hand, I can think of several from MS. Just make sure not to bring up the "toy story graphics," PS2 tech demos, or other things that Sony gets accused of but never said or misled with. Now, Seamus Blackley said we'd have "Toy Story graphics" with the Xbox. They reduced the clockspeed of either the CPU or GPU on the Xbox (maybe both, can't remember) a few times before launch, and they showed a tech demo that was never possible on the Xbox (may not even be possible on the Xbox 360). Oh yeah, and now this HD issue.

Maybe I've been blinded by the "greatness" that is Sony. Show me all the numerous lies/broken promises/misleading statements that I can't see on my own. Do me a great favour.

OK, I'm glad you showed me that I'm clearly not in the majority...wait a minute, no you didn't. Nice claim, but it is pretty easy to say something and not back it up.

And those "few threads" on video game messageboards (which can have ~1000 people viewing the board at one time, maybe more during something important) give me an example of what the hardcore gamer is thinking. The early adopter for the 360 will probably be a hardcore gamer. The same ones that looked at message boards and read the news about the 360. If they're pissed, then chances are that others are pissed. For example, if T-Mac gets traded for Allan Houston tomorrow, I'd say at least 95% of the board would be pissed. We are all hardcore fans, but chances are that the average fan would be pissed too. IMO, the opinions on those boards matter a lot since they'll probably be the early adopters. Like I said earlier, a lot of them were/are planning to get all 3 consoles at launch day. These aren't the opinions of people who will get a PS3 3 years from now.

And I'd actually be pretty surprised if more than a few people cancelled preorders this soon. If I had done so, I probably would have waited until the weekend or something like that, and that's assuming that I heard the news pretty early and that I still didn't want one. I really wouldn't be surprised if all the preorders stay full. The Xbox 360, even at this price and with the HD issue, will most likely sell out and will have problems meeting demand. But like I said earlier, I'm curious to see how the thing will sell in January, February, March, and so on. Even with some people being pissed, there will be enough people that want one, at least initially. The PS3 can cost $500 (w/o a HD) and offer no real advantages to the Xbox 360, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it sell out initially. It would sell like crap afterwards though.

You keep bringing up the $400 comment, which has nothing to do with this really. My issue, again, was about the multiple SKU's and no HD in every 360. I don't necessarily like the $400 price tag, and think it could possibly hurt MS in a way (like I explained earlier), but that wasn't my point for the majority of this thread. I probably would have liked something like one system at $360 with a HD. And actually, as long the HD was in both systems, I wouldn't really have much of a problem with two or more SKU's. Along with the $360, MS could have offered something like a system that also came with a wireless adapter, a headset, an extra control, maybe some "free" Xbox Live account, etc., for like maybe $450-$500. If they kept the accessory prices the same, I would have been perfectly fine with multiple SKU's in that case.

The price of the system isn't what I thought was "bad news." Like I said in my first posts, I didn't like MS splitting the userbase with the HD, especially when it seemed like they wouldn't due to their claims. So again, I don't know why you keep bringing the price up when I don't really have too much of a problem with it personally.

The whole 2 SKU's (one w/HDD, one w/o) is just not a good idea, IMO. I have problems with it just like CS Weaver and some others had with it in the "Industry Reactions" article I posted earlier. rrj_gamz brought up a good point about people being confused and buying the cheaper version, thinking it offers something that it doesn't.

What frustrates me is that I backed up my claims with support from various sources, while you just made a bunch of claims supported by two articles speculating about the 360. When I posted the spec sheet from MS at E3, you ignored "singular platform" and "every Xbox 360 system," while finding a new definition for "detachable and upgradeable." When I posted various articles (from some of the biggest gaming sites) supporting that statement, you called them "guesses" when they clearly weren't since they had to have come from MS is some way, shape, or form. When I showed you examples of hardcore gamers that followed this closely and were pissed off (basically people who didn't agree with you), you just called them biased fanboys (sounds familiar). Hell, I would have posted more sources to support my argument, but I knew it wouldn't do any good. For someone that sees the pros and cons of each side, you sure seemed to find it difficult to believe that MS misled us about the HD despite all the evidence that said otherwise.

If you could do more than make a bunch of claims, then I'd probably see things your way. I don't know if you noticed, but I changed my mind on things a few times in this thread due to good support. I started the thread thinking that Oblivion used the HD heavily and that they would have problems with MS's decision. But all it took was a comment from Bethesda to change my mind there. I even tried that again when CS Weaver said angry words towards MS, but I quickly dismissed that once I learned that he had no real affiliation with Bethesda the developer. I probably could have just left it that way since I'm just a Sony fanboy that wants MS to fail, but I noted that with an edit. Considering where I found that out, I'm not even sure many would have found that out, but I didn't want to mislead everyone.

FWIW, I also once thought that the Xbox 360 was probably not much of a next-gen system graphically. Some of the first games I saw were PDZ, DOA4, and a few PC ports. From those, I thought MS screwed up. But then I saw a lot of Gears of War, Oblivion, PGR3, RE5, and some other games (some EA games too, surprisingly). That convinced me that I was wrong. It didn't take much from MS to shut me up there, but I did need something besides them telling me it was next-gen worthy.

I'd like to apologize to everyone else. The last thing I wanted to do in this thread was argue about something stupid and defend myself for 3 pages. I should have just ignored Rokkit after his 1st or 2nd post when it became obvious that there would be trouble between us.

 

That probably is true, although I think the best of the best games for the Xbox used the HD a lot. One thing I wonder about though is how publishers/developers for MMO games will look at this. I'm sure they'd like to put their games on a console, but that will be a lot harder to do if a HD isn't standard. It would have been interesting to see MMO games take off in the console world much like they have in the PC world.

And as far as downloadable content, that is another reason why I am a little surprised a HD won't be standard in the 360 (or any console for that matter). Sony, MS, and publishers/developers really seemed to like the idea of microtransactions. I would think it would be a little harder to convince the public to go along with that idea if the HD isn't standard. I'd be a little uneasy as it is with paying $10 for new maps for Halo 3. Having to pay $100 more for a HD certainly won't make me feel any better about it.

BTW, I'm assuming that these things would probably not fit on a memory card. I think had a few GB's of mods/extras for Morrowind alone at one time on my HD. Granted, they were pretty awesome and added a lot of things, but I'd like to see something like that in the console world. It just seems like if they risked it with the HD a little more, they might be able to profit from it by these microtransactions. IIRC, the Halo 2 maps sold pretty well considering what they were.

I don't like the HD-DVD (or Blu-ray, but I doubt that) add-on idea either. Like you said, it just seems too much like a PC then.

 

Yeah, I said add-on, but I guess they won't be selling the drives directly to 12-year olds.

They would probably just add another SKU though, or at least that's what I'd do. I guess they could just replace the current versions of the system, but if it costs too much to put in (which it probably is since they didn't put one it), they would probably profit more from it by just offering it as another SKU. It won't really add anything to for those who don't want it, so they probably would just add another SKU to cash in on those who want to watch HD-DVD/Blu-ray movies. Of course, who knows for sure what they would do in this situation.