That's fine. I don't think anyone has a problem with that. Just like you or anyone else shouldn't have a problem with the long time fans who also believe in accountability, not sugar coating failures, and staying with the facts (as in, no revisionist history).
It is not the facts which are the problem it is the skewing of the facts, or rather looking at them in hindsight rather than thinking about what they were WHEN the deal happened, some deals just don't work out. DD
No, it wasn't. Not at that time, not later. 6.5 rebounds per 35+ mpg was not even "not a good rebounder," it was, in fact, pretty much horrible for a big man. Juwan Howard was "not a good rebounder." Mo Taylor was a pathetic rebounder. And a pathetic defender. And not much of a scorer, either. Even before his injury. All he did was high volumne bad shot selection chucking... But somepeople got fooled by that "17 ppg" line he put up playing heavy minutes for a horrible team.
At what point do people stop giving Rudy Gay a free pass on Memphis' horrible record and realize a true "star" talent would have his team at least showing some signs of improvement with all these new lotto picks they added?
The problem when you concentrate on "splash" and "bold moves" is that, some years, your big splash is Eddie Griffin, Mo Taylor, and Kelvin Cato. Over time, enough of these kind of moves, particularly if they involve long term "bold" contracts, start to weigh down even the positive moves you make. You end up with mediocre to bad records, no financial flexibility to acquire talent, your big name players not being adequately surrounded with talent...
I have to admire you all in trying to defend the undefendable . It is through hindsight we are able to clearly judge the full arch of his career as a GM. Sure CD meant well. Sure I admire his willing-do boldness to make splash moves. In the end, these deals had to have materialized in meaningful dividends (i.e. playoff wins and championships). All the well-intended deals, which ended up being unforseen failures, consistently for nearly a decade, accumulated to his mediocre tenure as THE GM. This doesn't take anything away from his coaching, his "partnership" in the championship teams, and least of all, his legacy as a Rocket. As THE GM of the Rockets, his decade of first-round losses and earlier exits speaks volumes over particular well intentions. Whether the deals lacked acumen and/or were just some flukey string of bad luck for nearly a decade, the outcome was the same. Please, stop making excuses for CD as the GM. His overall career and the banner we raised at the TC, far outweigh the opinions of this thread regarding his general managerialship.
I always wonder why so many rate Morey so highly. Yes he got it big with AB and Landry. As well as trading for Scola. Wafer is a good pickup. Artest is a basically a gimme. But what else? He got lucky that Greene scored 40 points during the SL and the Kings ate it all up. Dorsey have yet to done anything. The 3 PG system failed. Leaunen is still not good enough. Players like Mike Harris and Bonzi signed cheaply and done nothing. Bjax done nothing much other than matching Ron's contract. The way I sees it. He have as much miss as hits.
Before this years draft, the Rockets offered Battier and Brooks to Memphis for the #2 overall pick and guess who? Rudy Gay. I love Battier but he is nothing more than a role player, he has reached his peak. Gay on the other hand has the potential to be a star player, not a T-Mac or Kobe type but a Joe Johnson type. That is the difference.
CD have only 1 flaw. Over tendency to give a big contract or to trade for one. And you got to admire his ability to charm other GMs to do those huge trades. Eddie Griffin is so highly touted that I'm still amaze how did CD got to trade 3 draft picks for him. Charles Barkley is 33, injury laden. But he still average 23/11 as well as winning the 96 olympic gold as 1 of the 1st Dream Team members and an All Star member. For 2 highly rated player that is at 26 of age and 2 fillers. Tmac is at the peak of his abilities when he is traded.
No GM is going to get 100% of his moves right! I didn't like the Francis move at the time, the Mike James move, nor drafting Joey Dorsey. I think they shoould have drated DeAndre Jordan, because you already had Chuck Hayes. Personally, I don't see the need for 6'6" centers. From where this team was until now, I think he has done a good job. Scola, Landry, Brooks, Budinger, Taylor, David Andersen and the Ariza signing. ( I think these are going to be vital moves in the years to come, not necessary next year). All we need now is Rudy Gay back!!!!!
At the time I didn't think it was a good signing, a pf that doesn't rebound is useless. in regards to the thread, CD got old. you can't defend his performance post 97, and honestly, I didn't even like the barkley trade.
So did Darius Miles, DerMarr Johnson, Larry Hughes, Tim Thomas, Stromile Swift, Eddie Griffin, Harold Miner, and every other athletic lottery pick who didn't know how to put it all together. Maybe Gay will become a star. Its certainly still possible. But so far there is no compelling evidence to believe that he will ever become a player as good as Joe Johnson. 'Potential' to be a star player is something you could attribute to most guys in the NBA. Hell, you could say James White has 'potential' to be a star player. Meanwhile, Battier has proven to be uniquely great at his particular skill set, and is one of the best ten defenders in the NBA. Would I trade Battier for an actual star? Yes, probably. But to trade him for a Fourth year player who is still riding on "potential stardom" and is not even the best player on a terrible Memphis Grizzlies team? No thanks.
Great Thread! I must admit when I first saw the title I was like, who cares? That would be like asking after hearing the Gettysburg Address 'what would James Buchanan do?' I mean, we've got Lincoln, so who gives a crap about CD. But I was pleasantly surprised when I saw the true nature of the thread. Brilliant. Brilliant, I say.
So by this standard, you wouldnt trade shane for Kevin Durant? He hasnt won anything and has been in the lotto alot. His team actually had another lotto pick the same year he was drafted and he continues to put up great numbers on a poor team. If you want to know why gay and durant teams are struggling even with the high lotto picks, look no further than the coaching instability and the front office realing vets and trading them for nothing.
Kevin Durant is averageing 25 points on 47% shooting as a 20 year old in his second year in the league. Rudy Gay is entering his 4th year and his numbers last year actually declined from the year before. He isn't the best player on a bottom feeding Grizzlies team, and there are murmurs about them wanting to trade him. OKC wouldn't trade Durant for anyone not named Lebron. Kevin Durant is a budding superstar, while Rudy Gay struggles to average 20 points on one of the worst teams in the league. There is no comparison. Of course we would trade Battier for Durant. Funny you mention those teams struggling because they traded their vets for nothing. Memphis didn't. They traded their vet for Rudy Gay. That's when they started losing.
Clearly losing Pau Gasol had a lot more to do with the Grizzlies decline than losing Battier. If we struggle this season, are you going to ignore the loss of Yao injury, blame it all on losing Artest, and brand Battier a loser? Somehow I imagine your logic would be a little different... And I love the way you just absolutely trash Rudy Gay when comparing him to Durant. Of course Durant is better, but that doesn't change the point. To make that point more clear, replace Durant with LaMarcus Aldridge. Would you trade Battier for Aldridge? Assuming you would (no GM wouldn't), I'd love to hear you explain how Aldridge is soooooooooooooooo much better than Gay, that Battier for Aldridge is a no-brainer, but Battier for Gay would be idiotic.
I disagree. They were one of the worst teams the half season after they lost Battier and still had Pau. Same coach, constant everything, just the loss of Battier and the gain of Rudy Gay made them go from a playoff team to 6-24 (that was the point where Fratello got fired).
BTW my disagreement was with the statement that "losing Pau caused the Grizzlies to be bad." The fact is, they were a playoff team when they had Shane, they become a bottom feeder after they lost Shane.
