I can't fault keeping Artest. If Yao didn't go down, I think last year's team could have won a title. I really do, even without McGrady. As it was, Ron helped us advance further in the playoffs than we've been in more than a decade, which was a big deal in itself. We probably don't get past the Trailblazers without Artest, who played strong D all series on Roy and came up with 27 points in the clincher. And I don't think the plan at the time was to let Ron go, no way. They made the decision when Yao was probably lost for the season to try to rebuild with younger guys like Ariza, plus there was no way Ron was coming back to be on a non-contending, no Yao, 2009-10 Rockets squad when the Lakers were calling. The injury changed things greatly, from both parties' perspectives.
Thats a good point. Also there were teams left and right (Knicks, Wolves) offering for Yao Ming. The fact tht CD did not take offers like (Spreewell or Houston or whatever) and held onto Yao was a good move on his part. As I said, he made some good moves, he made alot of bad moves. He wasn't a great GM but decent.
Well said, I agree 100%. Ron did help this team become a contender and was therefore worth the PROTECTED 1st round picks traded. At least we got Ariza after Ron decided to leave.
I think Elie was somebody Rudy wanted based upon what he said in his book. He was gung-ho about him after watching him fill in for Drexler in Portland and loved his tough attitude. The reason we got him cheaply was 1) Rudy noticed he could be could be a good player combined with 2) They needed the salary cap space to sign.... *chuckle*... Chris Dudley. Again... that was from Rudy's book.
Clyde was also crying about wanting new deal in portland because there were others getting more money. They didn't call bob whitsitt trader bob for nothing either. All gm's hit and miss no matter who it is. Jerry West, Buford, and whomever else people want to name. Zeke may not can match talent, but he know talent well. He drafted stoudimire,camby,tracy and even traded for christie. In new york, lee and robinson are players, but matching those talents are different. It is what it is. The good gm's minimize mistakes, draft,trade, gather talent, and win rings. The gm in utah is one of the better gm's and have a great coach, but they haven't won a ring. In all sports, that's how you're judged.
People forget just how bad CD was at drafting players; Luther Head, Boki Nachbar, Michael Dickerson, Eddie Griffin, just to name a few. He was horrible. Thank God for Morey! If Budinger and Taylor turns out to be role players at where they were drafted during such a weak draft, that could put Morey in a class of his own. If only Morey could have started a year earlier. Gay for Battier was a pure steal. Jerry West is probably still laughing.
On the TMac trade, I give half credit to JVG. Since Francis and JVG had a falling out that culminated in the SuperBowl fiasco, JVG didn't want Francis anymore. TMac's situation in Orlando was happening at the same time, and JVG was all for it to get rid of Francis. And he happened to get rid of Cato as well, that's ditching 2 knuckleheads with one trade. I'm not sure JVG wanted to get rid of Cat, but to make the contracts work Cat had to be put in. The Francis/CD apologists would say that Francis was out most of the season before drafting Yao, thereby making us into a lottery team. But yes, even with a healthy Francis that team would have been hard pressed to even make the playoffs. Thanks to CD/Rudy T.
By all means go ahead and rag on Cato all you want! He was every bit as bad as you say. No, I wasn't referring to him as a good player at all - I was referring to his position. With him, they at least had someone to play the 4 (I say play in much the same way that Eric Dampier plays center for the Mavs) and the backup 5 spot. I simply did not like the idea of replacing a crappy PF with an average to below average PF on the downside of his career on the blind faith assumption that CD would find a suitable replacement. Given CD's track record of talent acquistion at the time, that constituted an extreme leap of faith. No, that trade was made with no plan for how to replace him at that position much less upgrade it so they went went with Howard (by default) who tried valiantly but who in the end was clearly not the answer. As for Cato, I really think he was serviceable as a backup 5 who could play on the floor with Yao at the 4 for short periods but that's about it. No way was he a starting caliber PF because he had no offensive game to speak of.
Hold up Sammy! Ron was getting beat all series long against Roy, it was Battier that held him down. That is why I love the additon of Ariza! Morey was trying to trade Ron last year to Washington for Butler. Sometimes it just doesn't get done but in the end it all worked out - we got Ariza!
Hey, and while we're at it, Tim Purpura got the Astros to the World Series!!! Purpura has 1 WS appearance. Gerry Hunsicker has none. The James contract wasn't a good signing, BUT considering how James already has played for us in 2004-05 and played solid basketball, I think it's reasonable to say reacquiring him wasn't exclusively a Morey move. If Morey was under full control at that time, I doubt he makes that signing on his own, seeing how it goes against his philosophy. As for Francis and Barry, you're kidding me right? How many resources did we allocate to get those two guys? Yeah... not exactly the Eddie Griffin trade that set the team back for years. Or the Maloney, Moochie, Cato, etc signings along with the awful drafting. Besides, Barry was an asset with regards to team leadership, and he did have a few productive games. It's hard to pass judgment on the Artest trade even after this season considering how it was an incomplete project. We never got to see a healthy T-Mac, Yao, and Artest play together pretty much all season, so it's not fair to say that trade was a mistake. Who did we give up to get him? It was clearly a trade worth making at the time, and it's the kind of trade you make 100X over.
This always cracks me up. Back then it was Rudy getting blamed for those deals. Now it's CD. I think it's a team effort when it comes down to the draft and trades - I doubt there are too many unilateral decisions. For example, Rudy was giddy when he heard we could get Griffin. Michael Dickerson was a pretty good player with injury problems that killed his career, btw.
Yeah but Rudy took over under Steve Patterson's watch. Steve Patterson fired Don Chaney in 91'/92'. Rudy took over that year and lead them to the second round in 92'/93', when they lost against Seattle, which was Horry's rookie year. The next year 93'/94', they won the championship.
You are right! It was Rudy but CD held the title of GM, so it was a joint effort. Either way they never drafted good players.
So who gets credit for the Devil Rays WS appearance? Horry, Cassell, and Cuttino would disagree with you. (and once again CD was assistant coach when Horry and Cassell were drafted)
Well, yeah, but I'm saying Elie was a player that Rudy wanted moreso than somebody that Patterson stole from anybody as a hidden gem. This is why it's hard to blame just a coach or a GM for decisions - it's sometimes hard to see where the decisions where made or how they were made. GM's aren't usually going to get players a coach doesn't want and coaches aren't going to negotiate trades for players (unless they somehow have that power). I think much of the bad of the CD/Rudy regime wasn't just that they got a lot of dud players, which every team does, but rather that, in retrospect, they handed out some insanely long contracts to some bad or average players.
I agree, it was a team effort or with rudy and cd. People say they didn't draft good players, what about mobley and kenny thomas? People can blast on dickerson who was a decent young player, who was good enough to be included in a package to get francis. That's why its always good to get talent because talent can bring other talent. Langhi,drew,nachbar, griffin, all were busts. GM's make mistakes, its just minimizing those errors.
Gay for Battier was a pure steal? Both teams got players who fit in well. I don't think either team is complaining. As for Michael Dickerson being a horrible draft pick. I disagree, Misrad Turckan ( http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=mirsad turkcan&defid=4110506 and yes that was me who added that) and Bryce Drew ahead of Shard Lewis were bad picks. But Dickerson could have had a very promising career in the league.
What did Mobley do? He was part of the ISO-Ball era with Franchise, Kenny Thomas was ok at best really did nothing of significance and to be fair when Nachbar went to NJ he actually did pretty well. I guess they weren't bust because they were so low draft picks but Scola, Brooks and Landry have already done more in there short time then those guys ever did(Mobley and Thomas I mean)
I just have one question on the Battier for Gay trade? How many GMs would trade Gay for Battier right now? Lets face it, it was a bad trade. Gay has waaaaaaaaaaaaay more value than does Battier.
You can't judge it in the context of now, especially considering we are now longer in 'win now mode'. At the time were were in win-now mode, and we eventually built teams that (in '08 and '09) should've made a lot more noise than they did, due to injuries. Battier's job was not to score; it was to be a gritty lock-down wing player. In the years after the trade, the teams envisioned by the front office and the actual results were starkly different because of our injury problems. The teams envisioned would've been taken to the next level by Battier's D, while the actual teams would've been more helped by Gay's scoring (maybe). It's all 20/20 hindsight. The trade was a gamble, but the gamble failed because of injuries - not because of Battier or anyone else in particular. We knew going into the trade that Gay would probably be more valuable years down the road - don't kid yourself. Looking at it that way, I'd say it wasn't a bad trade.. it just didn't live up to its potential.
