Do you know for a fact that Dawson and JVG were against the trade? Do you know for a fact that they were in favor of keeping the pick instead of trading it for a veteran?
I don't think any one here has said CD was a bad coach, so I don't really know where his work there has anything to do with his job as a GM. As a GM, he had significantly more bad draft picks than good ones post-championship, and there was a disturbing number of just plain bad contracts handed out that left the team with no flexibility (Cato, Moochie, Maloney, Mo Taylor, ect). It's not to say CD never made any good moves, or that Morey will never make any bad moves, but I do think Morey has done a better job rebuilding in 2 years than CD did in roughly 10.
Steve Patterson left for hockey iaround '92 or '93. I think.There was no official GM until 1996, when CD got the title. They made personnel decisions without an official GM.
It turned out to be a pretty good move for us. Shane has been huge for this squad. His defense, his professionalism, his team ball. I don't get why so many people hate him. I did not like the deal but I am willing to bet if the Rockets front office could go back in time, knowing everything they know, they would still pull the trigger on that deal. We were also able to dump Stro Swift's horrible deal in the process. Gay is turning out to be a good player. I like his game. But he was fairly raw coming out of college (there is a reason he fell to 8th overall). It was no given he would develop into a star. Has still yet to prove he is a winner. Why is everybody assuming he would have developed into a star playing alongside Yao/TMac in the JVG system? If that was a Morey deal (which I also believe it was), +1 for Morey.
IMO Rudy T gets half blame for those bad contracts during the CD era. If those guys are joined at the hip, then they should get equal blame until Rudy's "supposed" bowing out due to health reasons. Trevor Ariza is Morey's first big free agent signing, this will be on par with the Cato and Mo Taylor contracts as far as grading Morey to CD/Rudy. And Cato/MoT's contracts were for more money, 42 mill for Cato and 48 mill for MoT. SMH What I like about Morey is that when he makes an error he usually corrects it. Mike James sucked so Morey turned him into the eventual Artest deal via Bobby Jackson. Francis, we had to give money and a draft pick, but the damage was minimal and Morey was able to get rid of that deadweight.
CD was truly a Rocket legend. However, this was clearly an anti "Moneyball Morey" thread because Daryl did not throw a Kelvin Cato-esque full MLE contract at Von.
Since Shane joined the team, he's won 66% of the regular games he's played in (146 out of 222 games). I'd venture a guess that no other Rocket has played in as many games and won as high a percentage of them. Someone correct me if I'm wrong on that.
Patterson was actually canned before the '93-'94 season started. After here, he went onto the front office and I think part ownership or partner of the Houston Aeros. He worked with the Texans later and then was GM of the Blazers.
Agree about Hakeem but for that you have to give him a pass because Hakeem meant so much to the organization that they (Rudy, Les & CD) were loathe to call it a day. When Rudy T finally did so, Hakeem's pride blinded him to the fact that his time as a player was over which led to a messy parting of the ways. No, the Tmac trade was NOT OK - it was yet another of CD's gambles. You will recall that to make that deal, the Rockets gave up their starting 1,2 & 4 for Tmac, Lue, J. Howard & Gaines. And ever since that "OK" deal, they have been searching for: a starting 1, 2 & 4. They lucked into getting the PF in Scola but still haven't been able to replace the other 2 positions. My concern then was about the fact that you could trade away 3/5s of your starters with no plan in place for replacing them save for blind faith that somehow, some way CD would make the right moves. Well we can all see how well that worked out. I give him credit for what he did as a coach but as a GM he sucked big time. Let me ask you this: in the 12 or so years since those titles, has the memory of what CD did back then been enough to compensate for the lack of Rockets' success under his leadership as GM? Don't know about you but for me the answer is obvious. The situations are different because Morey, unlike CD, actually has a plan in place along with an idea of what he's doing. To cherry pick means that you can go here and there to pull up examples of mistakes. That's not the case with CD. Follow his record as GM and you see one poor decision after another with no continuity of thought or purpose. I also am not completely sold on Morey because of the Artest trade which I was dead set against so he still has to win me over. It was aimed at your tendency to look back at CD with sentimentality due to the 2 NBA titles while sugarcoating his tenure as GM. You bring passion to the discussion and I like and respect that but you allow your passion to blur the facts. Steve Patterson was the GM in the early 1990s and after that, they sort went without an official GM until CD took over in 1996. The 2 NBA titles happened before CD became GM. His tenure as GM produced zero NBA titles and 5 trips to the NBA lotto. As much as he was a nice guy and helped Hakeem and was a friend to Rudy T and all that, his record as GM speaks for itself.
The difference is in how you value or weight the deals, While the deals did not work out, to me they were good shots....the Maloney contract was predicated on Hakeem still staying a great player. The Mo Taylor contract felt like a win because we got a 17-8 guy for only the MLE when other teams were offering more etc. The Swift deal is similar to MoTay, he turned down more to take an MLE deal here...... At the time all of those seemed like fairly decent deals, the players did not pan out, and in any line of work some deals are going to suck. I would respectfully disagree about the Tmac trade not working out, I think it did...for a time....and CD did draft Yao too. So, while CD's tenure as GM was up and down, I do not see it as negatively as you do, I look at it as he was trying, and some of his bets just didn't pan out. Agree with you about Artest, I really wish Morey would have flipped him last year as an expiring, because we basically got nothing out of that but a one year rental of below average efficiency for 2 first round picks...yuck...but still not a total clunker.... I think we are actually closer to agreeing than we both might think. And I know Steve Patterson FROM his days at the Aeros.....and we spoke about the Rockets a lot.....nice guy, got shafted, IMO. DD
I give credit for the T-Mac trade to CD as well. He's unpopular, but the facts are that this team started winning at a much higher clip, and greatly increased their chances of playoff success, once he was brought in. I don't see how CD can get credit for drafting Yao, though. I mean, does he get credit for assembling a team that was bad enough to be in position to win the lottery? Does he get credit for the Rockets winning the lottery? I guess he gets credit for the negotiations with China to get Yao over here relatively smoothly. But, as I remember it, the actual pick was supposed to be a no-brainer at the time.
Now this is a great point that I happen to believe in as well. As much as I love and revere Rudy T as a player and coach, I would be the first to admit that his biggest weakness was that he tended to be blinded by certain types of players. As GM, it was CD's responsibilty to take the long view and to look at everything and to establish an operational blueprint on how to field a contending team. Instead, he simply did what Rudy T wanted which finally commenced in the 2001 draft day debacle of Eddie Griffin. Consequently, Rudy T ended up falling on his sword for the mistakes made by the organization and it has long been my contention that Dawson should have been fired at that same time as well.
Not how I remember it at all, some pundits were saying Jay Williams, and that Yao was unproven playing in China etc....and CD did a great job getting Yao over here....IMO. DD
I think most people give him credit for Yao because a large amount (majority?) of people thought the Rockets should draft Jay Williams because Yao was just a huge guy who happened to dominate a league with low end talent - he was a gamble, but CD and the Rockets had been watching Yao for years and were adamant about picking him with the #1 pick. It was definitely not a "no-brainer" in that sense.
I am sorry man, but I have to dog on Cato. They have been looking for a starting 4 since Barkley!! Kelvin Cato was a garbage player. They didn't lose a good PF in Cato in the Magic trade. They upgraded a crappy PF for an average PF. I don't think Cato had one good year. He was not a starting caliber PF. However, if you think he was that good, that's ok. I am sure there are a few other Kelvin Cato fans around here.
I'm agreeing with you again. I can't believe it! CD made bad decision after bad decision. If it had not been for Steve Patterson, we would have never began that championship run. People forget how important Maxwell and Elie where and they picked them up for nothing. Also, the trade for Otis Thorpe was instrumental as well. We haven't had a true power forward since. The reason other GMs loved CD so much because the knew the could take advantage of him personel wise. Before I said he made five good moves during his tenure but if you takeout the Horry, Cassel, and Drexler moves, that only leaves Steve and Cuttino. I would have to give him a pass on the Mcgrady move too.
