WTF- US Military "Prepped" Guantanamo Detainees for Chinese Interrogators

I just want to know if you are being sarcastic or where did you get this information.

 

No. Here...

I could go on, but you can use Google too. Still, I'll leave you with this...

 

The only reason these people have been missing is because they were going against the government, and in a country like China, it is not surprising they would go missing. However you phrased it like the Chinese government was participating genocide against minorities.

And I can assure you the ETIM does exist, and it is a terrorist organization. They attacked Han civilians in Xinjiang province, burning houses, setting off bombs on public transports, etc. I could go on to say that I personally know someone who was there but you wouldn't believe me as a random poster on an internet forum. And don't just think that everyone in china is brainwashed. If you live in propaganda for long enough and you are smart enough, it is not that hard to tell what's the truth and what's not.

 

That's a boatload of hogwash.

How is a terrorist act committed in your so-called allied democratic country any different from that in a non-democratic country -- the bigoted, bogus argument that China is a repressive state is another subject. FWIW, Great Britain, the most dependable US ally, is no less ruthless when it comes to cracking down on separatist/terrorist movement in Northern Ireland -- you can forget about due process, human rights, democracy, self-determination, and all that BS.

Are you suggesting that civilian lives in latter states somehow worth less than those in the former? What's the guiding principle, liberal or otherwise, that calls for such nonsense?

If a commonly recognized terrorist group committed terrorist act against the US interest but somehow was captured in, say, China, should PRC deny the request of US government for cooperation and assistance, including interrogation by FBI agents and extradition to US, on grounds of political and ideological differences?

 

so you are telling me that a bunch of my family members have disappeared? or in secret trials? or killed by the government? funny that i just saw them last year and will see them in a couple of weeks. so tell me WHERE THE F*** DID YOU PULL THAT S**T OUT OF?

 

Great. Yet... how do you reconcile that statement with this one?

Read that first sentence again and think about what it means. That is one heck of a rationalization.

Look, I know you're proud of China... it's a great country, no question. But the government has issues and when the government is not open and transparent, the citizens are in a tough spot.

 

In response to a statement that minorities have it better than the majority, I used a rhetorical device to counter.

As for evidence, see my previous post. Or use Google and search Amnesty International or Human Rights Watch or Human Rights in China... or just plug in China+dissidents or China+minorities or China+Tibet or China+Uighurs.

 

What does all this have to do with China and USA cooperating on Terror suspects?

 

my cousins all get more points in college entrance exams because they are minorities. considering how important that exam is in China, of course, minorities got it good.

and evidence? you need evidence when you are talking to a minority? every family in China has minority family members too. my family knows a bunch of friends here that are Manchu. i also know people from my own group here too. why would you trust the so called Amnesty International when a minority is telling you that we (at least my family from personal experience) never experienced any discrimination in China based on our ethnic background? i mean, gees, people are creating fake crap out of their butt. BTW, if you just search the group Tujia (Bizika), you will see what my group is about.

 

Ahhhh....I don't really know. Perhaps...you are brainwashed and you are a Borg?

Sorry...that's the best reason I could come up with because I am dumb.

 

i guess US did a very good job brainwashing me since I never even finished middle school in China.

some people are jealous that there are non Han Chinese unit with our Asian brothers and sisters.

 

You didn't get my point. I am not saying the Chinese government was doing a great job evaporating all those dissidents. That is a serious problem that needs to be dealt with. But what you said was suggesting the Chinese government was genociding against minorities, and that was a totally ridiculous accusation and simply couldn't be further away from the truth.

 

Wiped out and absorbed into Han culture is what it looks like

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tujia

 

Ahhh...looks like I didn't do a good job of being sarcastic there...

Easy brother. Please read my post again carefully. I was not really looking at you when I said that. I was just poking fun at the fools who always say other people are brainwashed or a Borg simply because they hold a different opinion in a debate.

 

sure, whatever you say. we still have our own autonomous region (just in native Americans ). although i doubt that native Americans appreciate that the Europeans did to them. there is a BIG difference between, groups that NEVER had contact before than this case here. so who is to say, wiped out and absorbed? how about Han adapted to local culture? we did live side by side for thousands of years you know. in fact, Han culture is different in many regions. so your argument or wiping out or absorption is very inaccurate. if what you said is true, wouldn't Han people be similar at least? yet, a lot of them can't even understand each other in a conversation. let's face it, just like most Europeans identify themselves with a common cultural background. ethnicity groups in China find themselves in the same situation. we are different groups of people that identify with a common cultural background. PS. there is really no Chinese culture. it's really a mixture of all cultures in that area.

 

oh my bad. there have been so many discussions about China. i am just posting the same crap over and over again. responding to the same crap other people posted over and over again.

 

How many native tujia speakers remain? 70k.....out of 8 million?

By way of comparaison, there's more Navajo-speakers in the US - about half of the 200,000 ethnic Navajo, according to the internets.

 

i never counted. that's not the point. there are Han people who speaks Chinese to me that i would have no idea what they are talking about. so the cultural absorption whatever is a myth. besides, did you ancestors come from England? most likely, there were from another European country that did not speak English. so is US wiping out culture here too?

 

I'd argue that the Han majority is indeed screwed in favor of the minorities in China in many aspects. This is hardly a crime as you frame it, and it's no more evil than the Affirmative Action that has been widely practiced in the U.S., something you fancy-pants liberals are proud of.

But other than making fun of a somewhat inconsequential measure to cater the cultural and religious sensitivities of the Muslim minorities, you simply can't dispute the cold hard facts that PRC government has established a host of policies to look after the interests and well-being of minorities in China, can you?

Of course the size and subjects of statistical sampling do matter, if you insist on soliciting the opinion of a disgruntled minority as a measure for unhappiness of Chinese in general towards their government, you should also take up the nastiness spewed by the relatives of those incarcerated in US jails for the same comparison purpose.

The point being, my ignorant and brainwashed friend, that the principle of your Founding Fathers ain't worth a damn when it comes to minorities. For one, many of the Founding Fathers were slave owners. The Civil War some 80 years after the birth of the Union was primarily started to prevent the South from splitting from the Union, the abolishment of slavery was only a by-product of the War, an after thought, if you will. Even with end the of slavery, Blacks remained segregated and could not vote for the next 100 years. I don't have to bring up stuff like Trail of Tears, Japanese-American Internment, or Chinese Exclusion Act to further my point. For minorities, the farce of democracy, freedom, human rights, and all that bullcrap never really materialized until almost 200 years after the declaration of "All men are created equal." What's your sorry excuse? "We are not perfect, but we overcame, blah, blah?" Well, yeah, I tell ya, PRC isn't perfect either, but it has been making tremendous progress in the last 3 decades.

Did I humor you enough? Regardless, I digress.

You are building your own strawman, fireman. I didn't say all NGOs are worthless, neither did I claim only governments can be critical of governments. My point was AI and many NGO are known to have selection and ideological biases, their reports and conclusions are to be taken with not just grains, but bags of salt. The same can be said about the media.

If you are not making excuse -- that Bush and his administration is to blame -- for the all unpleasantries you are whining about, then I'll gladly take it back.

I for one don't think Bush instructed US soldier to use Quran as his practice shooting target, or Abu Ghraib US prison guard to force Iraqis forming a naked human pyramid, or female US personnel in Gitmo humiliate Muslim male inmates, or use fake menstrual blood to smear Muslim holy book, do you?

Semantics are irrelevant in this discussion.

It's not just something the Chinese government doesn't like, my brainwashed liberal friend. I certainly don't like school buildings bombed, houses burned, civilians kidnapped and killed, plane blown up, and I think anyone with a functioning brain wouldn't like those either. Don't know about you, though.

There are plenty of non-violent ways to modify/change/amend laws. Unfortunately, none of acts stated above fits in the non-violent category. Extreme crimes call for extreme measures to counter. That's the norm of any orderly society. End of discussion.

 

The issue is not what a minority thinks, but how the majority treats a minority. More specifically, how a minority who think and act differently than the majority are treated. And sample size does not matter. If rights are deprived to one person, they are deprived to all.

Thanks for the response. Seriously. In spite of their hypocrisy and their human failings, the idea of human equality resonates today, as you freely recognize. Of course the US has a bloody history and we have definitely not lived up to our ideals at all times and our form of government is given to episodes of repression. But we do have that ideal to try and reach. Does China have a similar overarching principle?

And I never said China was not making great progress. The changes in my lifetime are obvious, even to this parochial American who'd much rather spend his time walking in the woods than staying current on world affairs. But regarding human rights, I'll defer to Jefferson:

I hope and trust this quote someday describes us all.

Nope, no straw man here, just a simple question. Is there an objective source about human rights conditions in China that you would recommend? You say not all NGOs are worthless. If that's the case, then which ones should I look to for information? You say the same about media, yet for neither NGOs nor media do you give a recommendation as to where I might go to educate myself on human rights in China.

The Bush administration has been a factor and they have definitely created an atmosphere favorable for many of the things you mention, if not directly supported some of the more egregious things done on behalf of the United States. That doesn't excuse it though, for we usually get the government we deserve. It will take a lot of work to repair the damage we've done to ourselves.

Agreed. So that must mean we both realize that simply calling someone a terrorist does not make them a terrorist.

OK, let's assume what you say is true (excepting the brainwashed part of course). Could an individual, say a Tibetan or a Uighur, commit a violent act in China without blame being attributed to the minority group to which that person belongs? If you can honestly and without equivocation say yes, then I'll admit my understanding of China is wrong.

I can't answer in the affirmative for the United States, and I doubt you can say it about China. So, it appears we've spent all this effort to reach the conclusion that we all have work to do.