Subatomic, I just have to say that was a thoroughly enjoyable post, especially the last paragraph. I can say one thing with strong conviction, <b>Barkley Lovers make for funner posters</B>
Gee, the Rockets were 26-5 when Drexler, Hakeem, and Barkley started together! They were only 2-4 in the western conference finals, and grabbed a big fat zero as far as championships go. Before Barkley, the Rockets had been champions two of the past three years. Why? Hakeem. I'm really glad that Barkley grabbed 33 rebounds, and bodyslammed Shaq. Really, that's nice. How many titles did Barkley win with the Rockets? One? Two? No, ZERO! Keep it up Freak! I guess it's just down to you and me as far as Hakeem supporters go. Hey Ramirez- no need to mention my nick 55 times per post. Hakeem may not care what we think, but I care. That's enough for me.
Alas, Zero, I knew that I was talking to the wall about this one. I'll just say one thing, yes it's true that the Rockets won 2 out of 3 championships before Barkley got there. However, if you think Olajuwon was all the Rockets had in '95 then you're pretty blind, you little troll, because what was Drexler? Chop suey? Also, what happened to the Rockets in '96? They got SWEPT by the Sonics in the 2nd round. The Sonics had also beaten them in the second round in '93. It was a pretty well-known fact that George Karl always built his defensive gameplan on stopping Olajuwon, but he didn't know how to revise that plan when Barkley came along. I guess according to you, the Rockets should have never picked up Barkley. Well, guess what--I doubt the Rockets would have won 57 games that season without CB and they definitely never would have made it to the WC finals because they would have never beaten Seattle. Please do us all a favor and go get some freakin' THERAPY!!!
Do you remember that third year? We were absolutely destroyed by the Sonics. Barkely got us past the Sonics, it was a gamble to try and hold the championship window open. It didn't work, but more than simply getting past the Sonics, Barkely also took our younger players under his wing and instructed them. When we win a championship with Steve Francis you can trace part of that to Barkely.
That's not true. You have all the Toronto fans now. ZRB and TheFreak. Get over it; he is gone. There is nothing to defend except his legacy. Oh, that's right. That is what you are doing. Then explain to me how a cold glass of water can injure Hakeem at halftime, only ten games into playing with Barkley. <b>A freaking cold glass of water</b>, benches him for 4 games. I love Hakeem on the court, but he was not a damn saint, and was clearly a locker-room ego that had to be stroked so that he would play hard during the regular season. ZRB, why don' t you just pour bronze on him to preserve him. TheFreak, How you can say my "if" scenario about Pippen leaving if there was a feud means I am blaming Pippen on Hakeem, is lost on me. You are a drama queen, who refuses to say he is just sentimental and doesn't like bad words said about his all time hero. It's OK dude really. Barkley is my all-time hero across ALL sports, how many bad words do you think I have to accept?....not as much as my hero did and continues to do ... I am sure of that.
THANK YOU, TOLPATCSH!!! It is nice to see that someone else remembers that Barkley was the reason why we were finally able to beat Seattle. God, I got so sick and tired of seeing that punk Payton beat us all by himself and all Rudy could do was call timeout.
Before Barkley the Rockets won a couple of championships, they also got slapped around by the Supersonics. You know why the Rockets didn't win a title in 1997? It wasn't the Barkley signing, or Barkley "not being dedicated", it was these 4 things 1.) Drexler got bearhugged by Karl Malone on a defensive rotations, 2.)The Rockets were set to sign Derek Harper, who was still playing great ball, but he got impatient and went back to Dallas, 3.)We got Brent Price, who was playing well, but ended up breaking his arm and then blowing out his knee, 4.) Then we got a great defensive PG in Emmanuel Davis, a guy Drexler himself said could guard Payton. Guess what? He blew out his knee. So we were down to freaking Matt Maloney and Sedale Threatt at the PG position! And for the people who said we could have kept the team together and had a real PG in Cassell, the same people saying this support Dream, and DREAM didn't want Cassell around! Besides Cassell was a walking M.A.S.H unit HIMSELF!? So before you use the convenient excuse "Barkley didn't win anything here", remember all the circumstances. I'm starting to think some people here have just snapped and REALLY believe this board is a on a mission to destroy Dream, and that the entire city of Houston is on some agenda to destroy the "good and honorable heroic Dream". Besides this isn't "Barkley vs Dream", this is about Dream taking <b>3 million dollars more</b> to go to Toronto. And remember this, Dream said he loved going to Toronto because they showed a committment to winning by re-signing their own free agents. So why are you ripping Houston for asking Dream to take 3 million dollars less, ONLY 3 million dollars less to keep THIS Rockets team together! The Rockets are in the business of winning, making money, and doing what's right for the organization, not going on some nostalgia trip.
Dude, you have missed the point completely. I don't care about what Barkley did in his career before he became a Rocket. Of course, I did appreciate how he lead the Suns in choking in the bigs games during the Rocket's first championship run, but that is irrelevant. After we traded for him, he never dedicated himself to the team and he never worked like a professional. He was a bad role model for the younger players as well. He was brought here to win a championship, but he failed because he was lazy. Barkley's injuries and shortened career were a direct result of his alcoholism and poor work ethic. Barkley stole money from this franchise. Also, your analogy to Ruth, Mantle, and Rose is so silly that I can't believe you posted it here. Ruth, Mantle, and Rose were champions. Barkley was a talker. Barkley's lack of morality is completely appropiate for our discussion here in <i>this forum</i>, because in my opinion, Barkley's lifestyle cost the Rockets another championship. Put that is your pipe and smoke it!
Let me get this straight, Dream leaves and now it's CB4's fault? Yeah blame his leaving on everything else except the fact he didn't want to play here any more. Rodney I loved your analysis of the players work ethics. CB4 is lazy yet he is easily one of the 5 greatest PF's in NBA history. PS he is 6'4 1/5, the size a a typical NBA guard. And you say he never played to his potential. Look again he is 6'4 1/2. Yeah Clyde never liked CB4, but that was because Clyde is an ego-maniac. He liked to be the center of attention and once CB4 arrived he never was. Maybe instead of running 6 miles a day he should have concentrated more on learning how to coach and making his college team a little more succesful. Everyone has their flaws. CB4 did like to go out but he did more with his physical abilities than any other player. Clyde didn't like not being the center of attention, and Dream has left for greener pastures. Maybe instead of blaming the state of the current team on the Barkley trade that you may want to look at why Dream-Stevie aren't exactlly best friends.
RodneyMcCray, My point about Ruth, Rose and Mantle is they were immoral (by your definition), but on winning teams. You say Barkley's vices are the reason he lost. Fine. If you win, you can have vices, and Rodney will chalk that up as fun. But if you lose Rodney won't respect you. Rodney, did you ever think for a second the Barkley's injuries were maybe.....just maybe due to years and years of abusing his body on the basketball court clearing out guys 6 inches taller than him. No, you are just going to say it is abusing his body with alcohol. Hmmmm, I wonder what caused Larry Bird and Rodman to get back injuries. I wonder why Earl Cambell went down early. Fact is: all of Barkley's injuries were legit. Do you really believe all of Dream's injuries and miracle cures were legit? I cannot help but think that mgmt and Dream were covering up in fighting. he got injured by a cold glass of water at halftime he got the JR Richard injury in the middle of feuding with Thomas...ooh scary he constantly got the Reggie Lewis scare...ooh he might die again he 3 times had a miracle drug administered to get him back out on the court oh, it's not a swollen calf, it is a blood clot. Oh no, no, no James Muntz (the star Internist in Houston) say, no worries, it was never a blood clot. But we have to put him on blood thinners. He will be out all Summer (during free agency...fancy that). Oh, you know what, loookie here, here is this miracle blood thinner that cured everything, even though there never was a blood clot. a freaking cold glass of water... Rodney, if you can say that Barkley is a loser because of alcoholism, then I can say that the Rockets deal with Hakeem in fighting by inventing injuries for him for PR reasons. Hakeem clearly has been in our doghouse more than once. Stuff that professional morality up your pipe.
Mango....that is going in my bookmarks. Do you want the link to how he got injured by a <b>cold glass of water at halftime</b>? I love saying that.
<b>Barkley's lack of morality is completely appropiate for our discussion here in this forum, because in my opinion, Barkley's lifestyle cost the Rockets another championship.</b> Just like Jordan's lifestyle cost the Bulls theirs??? Barkley and Jordan's get-togethers off the court are legendary in other parts of the country. They make the Gold Cup incident look like Southern Baptist day at Astroworld. Barkley was a tireless worker in the weight room as a Rocket and even gave up alcohol for a significant portion of his second year here, but that isn't really of any consequence. I didn't care much for Sir Charles either, but to bring that weak morality argument in here is silly. If every athlete who drank to much or didn't work out was not awarded a championship, we wouldn't have leagues.
Hehe. Mango is my idol. God, for anyone to think that Barkley cost the Rockets because he didn't work out just plain forgets the mad damn near led the league in rebounds 2 times out of the 4 years he was here and forgets about the 30pts 20reb games he had and how he tried to guide Francis when he first arrived on the Rockets. Barkley never won anything. True. True. True. But to question the mans character or desire when he clearly never displayed any quit in any game is totally r****ded.
YOU are the one who introduce the term "immoral" to this debate. You are now just putting words in my mouth so you can base an illogical argument on my supposed intolerance. You are WEAK here. You aren't even addressing my main point. Professional athletes are paid to win. Barkley was brought to Houston to win a championship. Winning involves PREPARATION, and then execution on the field/court. Barkley did not earn his money, because he did prepare. As for Hakeem, you could be right. That is your opinion, and I respect that, even though you seem to have trouble respecting other people's opinion. Wow, what a pleasant way conclude. Did you think that up all by yourself, or did one of your kids help you?
So, anybody that disagrees with you on this point is "r****ded"? That is nice, sound reasoning. Try to understand this- Barkley quit in the weight room, he quit at night when he was in the clubs, and he quit in the offseason. He could still be playing in the NBA RIGHT NOW, but he ruined his body. I know it, but more importantly, Barkley knows it, or he would not have tried to come back again. Unfortunately, Barkley's comeback this year was thwarted by (can you believe this?)- HIS LAZINESS. LOL, according to Barkley's trainer, he would not work out consistantly. Of course, this did not stop Barkley from flapping his jaws to the press about playing with his best buddy Jordan. What a joke. Barkley does not deserve to carry Jordan's jockstrap.
As a matter of fact, a juevenile did help me that. you.....go back and look at your last post and you will find this: I guess you conveniently forgot that, because you didn't prepare fully for debating like you say about Barkley and basketball. And dude, you started the immoral stuff, not me. As far as preparation goes, you also conveniently forgot that the media was lauding Barkley's physical preparation and cut abs for Francis's first year. Big men who throw their body around, get injured. He is not a finesse player. Calling him a loser because of alcohol is weak. And calling him an alcoholic is not your role, and simply shows your narrow view of morals and your hatred for Barkley. Then you say he stole money from the franchise and fans. good grief. I don't have hatred for Dream. You clearly have hatred for Barkley. Say something in fairness to the man, will ya. I did for Dream as my second post here.
