What they're saying is - Kevin Walter is the "blocking tight end" and thats what he does, he's not called on to catch passes. Or in an RB corpse, he'd be the "fullback" , doing particular things from the backfield but its not about getting 30 touches a game. Who knew that there'd be such specific specialists positions inside the WR position in this offense? They're saying its instead of having the 2nd best pass catcher type after #1, its having the most intangibled workman-like fullback and blocking tight end of the WR corpse. You then can agree or disagree with that assessment from there.
I wonder how this affects redzone performance. Texans have only been Top 10 in PPG once. I still contend KW needs to be demoted two spots.
He's already at #4 behind AJ, Arian, and OD. That's the way Kubiak's offense works. The #2 receiver is the #4 passing option. You want him to move from #4 to #6? Why? Just because you're the #2 receiver doesn't mean you should be #2 in catches. This isn't Madden.
Yes, and because of that, he took a million dollar (25%) paycut. He had a down year by his standards. Semantics aside (lol @ your hairpslitting), you seem really in over your head in this discussion. Your grand solution was to sign somebody last year like T.O. (roofle) or Plaxico (whom we couldn't afford, as we only had 800K in cap space and he signed for 3 million fully guaranteed, nor did we need by the time he inked his deal with NYJ). You haven't even bothered to respond to my original post, other than a snide remark or two, which is very telling. It's clear your mind is made up, so, as modest of a position as it is to take, I'm not going to try and bother to convince you that Kevin Walter needs to start over, say, Bryant Johnson or a rookie. We're all very thankful you're not in charge of any decision making in the organization, to say the least. Seriously. I'm beginning to think that damned game ruined a generation of football fans.
He's got a point, Kevin Walter is one of the worst starting receivers in the league. Putting a speedster or red zone threat opposite Johnson would greatly benefit the deep passing game off play action. Obviously it doesn't matter that much when Johnson and Daniels are healthy, but that hasn't been a consistent theme. Methinks the Kubes will look at Lestar Jean long and hard.
Yeah, that worked out great. Tell me, what "red zone threat" (from that list I posted, preferably) would you put opposite AJ? Anybody who qualifies as a legit "red zone threat" is probably either going to be out of our price range, or one of Uncle Bob's little urban achievers. It's time to face facts, we can't have everything we want in a #2 receiver. If we did, it'd practically be a waste of talent, since there's only one ball to go around. As Hey Now pointed out already, Kevin Walter has a specific role, and does just what is asked of him. Replacing him with someone better would just end up taking balls away from Arian and Owen, which is fine, but when they're talented enough to handle the load, why bother? I don't see it making a huge difference in this offense, personally, so I'm not going to sweat it. As for "one of the worst starting receivers in the league", I think you need to go take another look at the list of guys who are actually starting, which is what I had to do when I put that list together. He's in the bottom 1/3rd, but I don't count that as "one of the worst", more like "below average".
We all know that in this modern era of the NFL every team has to choose a weakness. Nobody gets to enjoy depth across the board anymore, the cap wont allow it. For Kubiak he's obviously deemed WR2 less of a priority (a shift from RB). The best you can hope for is hitting on a late round pick, and even then, they'll demand a big contract sooner than later. We suck at WR2 and we know it. That's just how it is. If you put your chips into bringing in a stud then you're ultimately forfeiting strength somewhere else. So what if we brought in a stud? Wallace for example. Trade a #2 for Wallace + you lose Barwin in FA because you cant afford him. Barwin + #2 for Wallace. Okay... now we're weaker in the pass rush. Sure we're stronger at #2WR and have an established future #1WR, and we have that safety net we all want if Andre goes down. But now the pass rush is weaker. We're better at WR2 but are we any closer to a Super Bowl if we've lost strength in the pass rush? We'll have to live with Walter, hope a rookie pans out, and gamble that Johnson can stay healthy. Trying to plan for an AJ injury would just make us weaker in the long run. Hopefully a solid FA becomes available after preseason cuts, but either way, I'm fine with rolling with Walter this year and crossing my fingers than one of this jabroni rookies can give me something downfield.
Jacoby Jones had no hands, but at least his speed threat kept the safeties from creeping up in the box. Texans aren't in position to land a Plaxico, that is a Madden player with little cap knowledge talking. All I'm saying is that if Kevin Walter is again your number 1 passing option by the 2nd month of the season, you better address that need in the offseason. They are putting a lot on Jean or Posey to contribute. Might work out, might not.
Not everybody has the luxury of replacing an all-pro with another all-pro. As Hey Now pointed out, Jacoby was Andre's replacement, not KW. He sucked, he was terrible, and he was cut. They drafted a bunch of guys the last two years to succeed both AJ and KW in the coming years, but no one should be expecting them to do it this year.
But You don't need Mike Wallace. You need a guy who can do something other than run 7 yard ins and outs. Kevin Walter would be useless if he had average hands. Carolina obtained Louis Murphy from Oakland for a 7th round draft pick. That's a pretty low risk for a guy who has shown he has NFL abilities. Now Rick Smith might be enjoying the smell of his own stink right now because of his draft hits, but putting stock in washed up FA fodder like Bryant Johnson or unproven guys is a risk they seem to be willing to take. A great defense and running game can hide a weakness, but WR2 is a spot that could come back to bite you in the ass if 80 continues to be gimpy
Again? When was he ever the number 1 passing option? When AJ got hurt last year, he was still the number 4 option behind WR1 (Jacoby), TE1, and RB1.
Don't be coy now, nobody saw #12 lined up at flanker and thought "hot damn, thats just as good as 80". WR1, TE1, etc designation means nothing. You have starters on the field and the defense dictates where you throw the ball, even when 80 is there. When the Rockets had Yao Ming they made it a priority to find a backup center who could step in and help out. This may all be a moot point when the season starts, trades can still happen, some guys will get lost in another team's numbers game and get cut and be available, Kevin Walter might bounce back and become serviceable again. I'm not saying this will cripple the Texans offense, because they proved last season they can do fine as long as they have players integrated into their system, I'm merely pointing out that a team trying to win a championship should focus on shoring up a position of weakness. They still have time to do it.
Yeah, we're on the same page here, but right now you have 65% of the fanbase either wanting a big splash or whining about TO not being in camp. One of the rookies might workout this year, I doubt it, I hate rookie WR's, but they've been a lot more productive in recent years as a whole. I'm not so sure its Rick Smith not willing to gamble so much as it is Kubiak just not wanting to bring in someone else. I hear Phillips gets the same way about guys in the secondary.
This Kevin Walter revision would be perplexing if it weren't so ridiculously predictable. It is, after all, August and that means the usual slew of Johhny-Know-Nothing Texan fans are starting the process of pinpointing their official Whipping Boy for the coming season. Kevin Walter caught 65, 60, 53 and 51 passes the previous four years. Last year, he was hurt and then played 9 weeks opposite Jacoby Jones and another 6 weeks with TJ Yates under center. Until he posts a *second* sub par season as Texan, I'm willing to give KW the benefit of the doubt because he's been a better-than-people realize WR for the Houston Texans. Kevin Walter has been the starting WR for five years and at no time - ever - has the Texans' deep passing game been impacted. Matt Schaub is routinely among the league leaders in YPA and the team hits big passing plays often. In fact, Schaub has hit at least one 40+-yard pass play in 24 of his last 42 starts. As a means of comparison, Drew Brees has 23 over the same stretch. And please do me the favor of killing me first if your response has anything to do with "noddle arm," "RB/TE dumps," or how many more he'd have if 58-year old Cancer Owens was running amock not being covered by anyone because he hasn't been an even remotely decent NFL player in 3 years. This "It's still 1988, where's John Taylor/Alvin Harper?!?!" cry for a speedy WR2 who stretches this or breaks that is flying in the face of a remarkably effective passing game. And it discounts how good Walter is in the running game, which, oh by the way, is one of the best in football. It's sad that too many of you are so pre-programmed to b**** that you can't stop long enough to enjoy a stacked team oozing with talent and potential.
I understand most of your rant, and agree that Schaub consistently is able to stretch the field with whoever is available because of the efficiency of the running game. I for one think Schaub is a great system QB and his career numbers suggest he is one of the game's more underrated QBs. My only point is that Kevin Walter may have once be a very decent WR2 whose niche was to make 3rd down catches, block well, etc... and that is all fine until Andre Johnson goes down with some inevitable injury which leaves you with... Bryant Johnson / Lestar Jean as your WR1? Kevin Walter doesn't mean much when 80 is healthy, but if he goes down again... you don't have Joel Dressen leak routes off bootlegs as your bread and butter anymore. Was there not a game where Jacoby Jones was targeted 11 times and only caught 1 pass? That to me suggests a belief in the system moreso than the personnel. The thought that you can plug in a guy, "next man up" style and continue right along. It seemed to work well with Yates, Dressen, Ben Tate, etc... but if Kevin Walter's function within the offense remains unchanged... you are basically stuck with nothing behind 80. Again, this is all a moot point if 80 stays healthy, or Jean/Johnson/Whoever can prove they can contribute. I'm just wondering if it is prudent to put such faith in such unproven or underwhelming talent.
It's radical you guys are arguing about our 2nd receiver, 4th option. The Texans have come a long long way
And here lies the crux of the issue, the vital part of this that no one seems to understand: even if you replace Kevin Walter with... whoever - Mike Wallace, let's say. If AJ goes down, you're *still* left with Bryant Johnson / Lestar Jean starting at WR. If people want to gripe that the Texans haven't developed a post-AJ plan, OK - that's (somewhat) fair game. But their lack of doing so has *absolutely* nothing to do with Kevin Walter. Again, release Kevin Walter (and 15 other players) so you can trade/sign Mike Wallace. If AJ goes down....... aren't we having the same conversation? "Who's behind MW?" The AJ line of succession does not, nor has it ever, started with Kevin Walter. In fact, they'll need to develop a KW replacement soon, too. Kevin Walter is an intricate piece of a larger puzzle.
(BTW, moes - most of that rant, if not all of it, was *not* directed at you. I knew you were a Schaub fan and admire your football takes, by and large.)
System QB implies that Schaub couldn't do it without Kubiak, or that anybody else could, and we all know that's not the case. Schaub has remained pretty consistent throughout 3 separate OC's (whom, despite the armchair opinions, had pretty different philosophies). Matt Leinart, Rex Grossman, David Carr, T.J. Yates, Sage Rosenfels, etc. almost all fell flat on their face in relief of Schaub, that is not the tell-tale sign of someone being a "System" QB. Of course it isn't prudent, it's necessary. You can't be stacked at every position.
I'm perfectly content to sit back and wait until after the Saints preseason game to see what we have in the youngsters. That's always the best way to go. You simply can't afford to pay for 3 playmaking wideouts in the hard cap era. You have to follow the Saints/Giants model and draft/develop them, and let many of them walk when they come up. Ideally, someone emerges as a reasonable Andre understudy/slot/deep threat (Martin or Jean) and someone progresses into a Walter replacement (Posey). Probably won't have a good idea on who can give us what until at least the Niners.
