Wow, the Rockets have really worked on that defense.

this is not the kind of post we need here. Save it for espn...we try and treat each other with some respect, even if we disagree...

 

<B>I would suggest that it indicates that the Rockets backcourt isn't nearly as poor defensively as some have suggested, including me, and that the regularity with which we have suggested that they score a lot but give up the same isn't anywhere near the factor in our losing as claimed.</B>

Except it's really not about being outscored. We should outscore opposing backcourts all the time because our guards will combine for 40+ shots. If the other backcourt scores 30 points on 20 shots, and ours scores 40 points on 40 shots, I think their outplayed ours, even though the ppg stat shows otherwise.

 

no, because the contention I'm saying it refutes is that our guys score but give up just as many, hence it's at most a wash.
But I do see your point.

 

amen, brother!! preach on!!!

i've been shouting this for some time now...MOST (qualifier) championship teams aren't built from their backcourt. Griffin's development is huge to the development of this team. We can have the "most exciting backcourt" in the league all we want...it's yet to get us to the playoffs.

I LOVE Steve Francis. But...he generally gets torched on the defensive end of the ball. He'll score thirty, but he gives up thirty just as easily on the other end.

 

Get outta here. Yet another unsupported claim! Here's Steve last 12 games and the opposing PG:

SF 10-23 27/pts DArmstrong (ORL) 8/11 27/pts
SF 7/14 33/pts JStockton (UTH) 6/14 14/pts
SF 9/19 30/pts SNash (DAL)13/19 33/pts
SF 11/23 33/pts LHughs (GSW)7/16 17/pts
SF 10/21 30/pts BDavis (CHA)13/25 34/pts
SF 6/23 23/pts JKidd (NJ) 2/11 7/pts
SF 7/20 26/pts KAnder (BOS)3/9 6/pts
SF 5/20 13/pts ESnow (PHI) 3/9 9/pts
SF 4/8 14/pts NExel (DEN)2/14 4/pts
SF 9/15 27/pts JStock (UTH)9/16 19/pts
SF 6/15 19/pts MJackson (NY) 6/9 14/pts
SF 3/8 13/pts JTinsley (IND)5/17 11/pts

Steve gave up ~30 three times but scored 30 to wash out. Nash and Davis are no slouches. Other than that, nobody has gone for 20+ while he was only held <20 4 times.

I'll take those stats anyday.

 

these stats are meaningless unless you post the scoring averages of the players he went up against. If Eric Snow only averages around 9 ppg, that doesn't tell us much that he scored 9 against Steve. I don't think anyone is going to argue that Steve Francis is a good defensive player...if you're arguing that, suffice it to say I disagree.

 

You stated that Steve gives up 30 pts as often as he scores 30. That is clearly a false statement. If you are saying that your statement is meaningless because the facts, which you neglected to look at, are not important then I have to agree. Not only was your statement false but that by your own account it was based on a premise that is meaningless.

I'll agree that it would be interesting to see how often Steve held his oppenant under their season avg. I've got the day off so I'll check that too.

 

I've added Steve's other games. So as you can see, the PG averaged right at 2 ppg above thier season average. Of those games, the opposing PG scored more than 3 pts over their avg 11 times or 42% of the time.

So more than half the time, Steve is holding his opponent pretty well defensively, statistically speaking. Now, in those games, Steve was only significantly outproduced on the offensive end in <b>only 2 games</B> (Marbary/Exel).

So I agree the defensive numbers arn't stellar but I certinaly wouldn't put that into the category of "poor." Maybe you would. But considering how much he contributes offensively, I find it difficult to pin this as a negative attribute. Simply something to improve upon but not "bad" as you are quick to attribute.

<PRE>
<b>Steve's
Pts pts avg</B>
27 DArmst. ORL 27 12.6
25 AMiller CLE 31 16.7
33 JStock. UTH 14 12.6
30 SNash DAL 33 19.5
33 LHughs GSW 17 14
30 BDavis CHA 34 19.4
23 JKidd NJ 7 14.1
26 KAnd. BOS 6 9.4
13 ESnow PHI 9 9.8
14 NExel DEN 4 21.4
27 JStock UTH 19 12.6
19 MJackson NY 14 8.1
13 JTinsley IND 11 9.2
36 CAtkins DET 6 10.7
23 JTerry ATL 6 18.7
32 JMcInnis LAC 11 14.3
20 TBrandon MIN 15 12.4
13 SMarbary PHO 27 19.5
22 NExel DEV 25 21.4
18 SClaxton PHI 12 7.1
7 NExel DEV 28 21.4
32 TParker SA 14 9.3
26 LHunter LAL 7 6.8
33 SNash DAL 21 19.5
18 MBibby SAC 10 14.3
17 JMcInnis LAC 13 14.3
____________________________________________________
<b>23.46 16.19 14.20 TOTAL</B>
</PRE>



BTW, if you take out the most recent Orlando game where <br>Anderson caught fire, the opposing PG production drops by a <br>whole point making the difference between the actual vs. <br>averages only a 1 point difference instead of 2. Take that <br>how you want.

 

good analysis...

numbers aside, i see francis play defense the same way kenny smith played defense. i'll agree he's a great scoring threat...i never attacked his offensive abilities.

i really like steve!! he's my favorite player in the nba...but i don't believe he qualifies as a superstar (to me, anyway) and i don't think he's even an average defensive player.

 

I'll agree that he may not be our ideal superstar. The reason I say this is because Steve rarely <b>controls</b> the flow of the game. He gets his points in the flow of the game, which is great...for a role player.

But your true star needs to be a goto player and Steve really hasn't shown that he can do that consistantly when it counts.

We'll have to agree to disagree on Steve's defense, however, although I certainly see your point of view. But Steve is our primary offensive threat. Rarely is your primary offensive threat a major defensive force. I'll say Dream and Jordan are two that come to mind. It's tough to compare either of those two to Steve at this point in his career. That being said, I beleive I've clearly shown that Steve is an average defender...not great but not bad.

All that being said, a good team plays team defense. One defender should not be exposed much unless the teammates are not pulling their weight either.