How? China flooded the market with Rare Earths to destroy all the mining operations in the world, and now they are cutting off supply to outsiders to pressure companies to move locations, and jobs to China...as well as the technology. What high road is there to take?
Looks like the insecurity of the US, Sweet Lou and Deckard is showing up :grin: I wonder how shocked the US government will be when they find out that they are just being used by India to advance Indian goals.... After all, the Indians view another country as a better ally and friend than the US. That country is Russia.
You don't need aircraft carriers to fight in the 21st century cold war. No missles will be lobbed, no proxy wars fought. It's all economic. Instead of guns and missiles, it's tariffs, quotas, bans, and industrial espionage.
Cold war my a*. Cold war is between equals. The US spend more than the rest of world combined on miliartary and over 10 times more than China. Plus, China clearly focuses way more on internal issues than any international disputes.
I know what mumbo jumbo means. I'm wondering, tossing out the NK/SK crap of course, which is irrelevant, do you actually have a retort to the point of his post, or mine for that matter? Is this gonna be a typical Deckard fluff piece? I asked several very simple questions in my previous posts. And being all self-righteous that you are and your opinion so unshakable, it would be rather easy to answer it, instead of your typical pathetic question dodging. After all, if your point was so strong to begin with, why not answer the question and prove me wrong once and for all? I'll state them again: 1. What are you doing to protect the Chinese manufacturer from being paid the amount he was promised because the US is actively printing money? 2. What are you doing to protect the Chinese investors' wealth because the US actively printing money? 3. Why is the US dollar "too high" when it's down 35%+ measured against a trade weighted basket over the past 3 decades and down against all 16 major traded currencies because QE II is already priced in? 4. Why, if the reason the US has a trade deficit is because China is manipulating its currency, does the US have trade deficit with 90 countries in the world, most of which aren't "manipulating" their currencies? Since your arguments are so strong, I would like those answered in a timely manner. But you know what I suspect? I won't get them answered. What really struck a nerve is that Karlfranklin called exactly right, other than suspecting you to be I supposed Indian. When called on your fluff piece bullsh1t, because you didn't have an argument to being with, you never fail to fall back on "call people mumbo-jumbo, mad, ramble, whatever." You saw it coming. You're a moron. And I just proved that you are one. Yawn. The US has been pushing for India to play a bigger role for over 20 years. It has sided with India for over 60 years. FT has been pushing the Indian economic miracle joke for just as long. Suggesting this somehow happened because "aggressive action from China" must be the joke of the last 2 decades. Wake me up when the Indian economic miracle actually happens.
economic competition is part of "cold war". Proxy wars weren't the only thing. The key to a cold war is high level of tension without lobbing bombs at each other. We're in a cold war with China. That's what they want: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article7017951.ece China’s hawks demand cold war on the US Michael Sheridan, Far East Correspondent MORE than half of Chinese people questioned in a poll believe China and America are heading for a new “cold war”. The finding came after battles over Taiwan, Tibet, trade, climate change, internet freedom and human rights which have poisoned relations in the three months since President Barack Obama made a fruitless visit to Beijing. According to diplomatic sources, a rancorous postmortem examination is under way inside the US government, led by officials who think the president was badly advised and was made to appear weak. In China’s eyes, the American response — which includes a pledge by Obama to get tougher on trade — is a reaction against its rising power. Now almost 55% of those questioned for Global Times, a state-run newspaper, agree that “a cold war will break out between the US and China”. An independent survey of Chinese-language media for The Sunday Times has found army and navy officers predicting a military showdown and political leaders calling for China to sell more arms to America’s foes. The trigger for their fury was Obama’s decision to sell $6.4 billion (£4 billion) worth of weapons to Taiwan, the thriving democratic island that has ruled itself since 1949. “We should retaliate with an eye for an eye and sell arms to Iran, North Korea, Syria, Cuba and Venezuela,” declared Liu Menxiong, a member of the Chinese people’s political consultative conference. He added: “We have nothing to be afraid of. The North Koreans have stood up to America and has anything happened to them? No. Iran stands up to America and does disaster befall it? No.” Officially, China has reacted by threatening sanctions against American companies selling arms to Taiwan and cancelling military visits. But Chinese analysts think the leadership, riding a wave of patriotism as the year of the tiger dawns, may go further. “This time China must punish the US,” said Major-General Yang Yi, a naval officer. “We must make them hurt.” A major-general in the People’s Liberation Army (PLA), Luo Yuan, told a television audience that more missiles would be deployed against Taiwan. And a PLA strategist, Colonel Meng Xianging, said China would “qualitatively upgrade” its military over the next 10 years to force a showdown “when we’re strong enough for a hand-to-hand fight with the US”. Chinese indignation was compounded when the White House said Obama would meet the Dalai Lama, the exiled spiritual leader of Tibet, in the next few weeks. “When someone spits on you, you have to get back,” said Huang Xiangyang, a commentator in the China Daily newspaper, usually seen as a showcase for moderate opinion. An internal publication at the elite Qinghua University last week predicted the strains would get worse because “core interests” were at risk. It said battles over exports, technology transfer, copyright piracy and the value of China’s currency, the yuan, would be fierce. As a crescendo of strident nationalistic rhetoric swirls through the Chinese media and blogosphere, American officials seem baffled by what has gone wrong and how fast it has happened. During Obama’s visit, the US ambassador to China, Jon Huntsman, claimed relations were “really at an all-time high in terms of the bilateral atmosphere ... a cruising altitude that is higher than any other time in recent memory”, according to an official transcript. The ambassador must have been the only person at his embassy to think so, said a diplomat close to the talks. “The truth was that the atmosphere was cold and intransigent when the president went to Beijing yet his China team went on pretending that everything was fine,” the diplomat said. In reality, Chinese officials argued over every item of protocol, rigged a town hall meeting with a pre-selected audience, censored the only interview Obama gave to a Chinese newspaper and forbade the Americans to use their own helicopters to fly him to the Great Wall. President Hu Jintao refused to give an inch on Obama’s plea to raise the value of the Chinese currency, while his vague promises of co-operation on climate change led the Americans to blunder into a fiasco at the Copenhagen summit three weeks later. Diplomats say they have been told that there was “frigid” personal chemistry between Obama and the Chinese president, with none of the superficial friendship struck up by previous leaders of the two nations. Yet after their meeting Obama’s China adviser, Jeff Bader, said: “It’s been highly successful in setting out and accomplishing the objectives we set ourselves.” Then came Copenhagen, where Obama virtually had to force his way with his bodyguards into a conference room where the urbane Chinese premier, Wen Jiabao, was trying to strike a deal behind his back. The Americans were also livid at what they saw as deliberate Chinese attempts to humiliate the president by sending lower-level officials to deal with him. “They thought Obama was weak and they were testing him,” said a European diplomat based in China. In Beijing, some diplomats even claim to detect a condescending attitude towards Obama, noting that Yang Jiechi, the foreign minister, prides himself on knowing the Bush dynasty and others among America’s traditional white, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant elite. But there are a few voices urging caution on Chinese public opinion. “China will look unreal if it behaves aggressively and competes for global leadership,” wrote Wang Yusheng, a retired diplomat, in the China Daily. He warned that China was not as rich or as powerful as America or Japan and therefore such a move could be “hazardous”. It is not clear whether anyone in Beijing is listening.
Also a strange trade war. It is not like China is flooding US with Chinese brand products. Why large US corp. are against any trade disputes between US and China? Their manufacturing are all in China. The Union is behind majority of the disputes.
I agree, the Chinese are flooding the US with products from American corporations. Sadly, American manufacturing jobs are being replaced by robots more than the Chinese laborers.
The kind of response I've come to expect from you, MFW. Derogatory, insulting, doing nothing to encourage me to have any sort of real dialogue with you. You aren't interested in one. You are only interested in defending China and her interests. Go ahead. I really don't care if you disagree with me and I'll certainly post whatever I wish about your country. All you do is highlight the fundamental insecurity that drives so much of China's foreign and internal policy. Thanks for that, if for nothing else.
Wait, what? Let me get this straight: China has flooded the market (they increase the supply) Hence, you complain that this destroys the mining operations. Now that China is decreasing supply, you complain that.......? My point on the rare earth metals issue is that when China increases supply, you say it closes down other mines (Which it does), but when China decreases supply, you say that it forces companies to move to China. So does that whatever China does on rare earth metals, you're going to oppose it? And my broader point is that USA has to lead by example. The high road I'm talking about is about NOT giving ammunition to Chinese nationalists and patriots. If you really start a trade war, start imposing tons of tariffs on China, you would gain some employment, but make an enemy out of the 2nd largest economy in the world. And what on earth has China gain to start a trade war with the US? Make an enemy out of your biggest trading partner, with a trade value of nearly $300 billion, and declare a trade war on an economy that's 3 times your size? One of the biggest advantage you have, as the USA, is the university system that practically guarantees the graduates get better jobs than Chinese uni graduates. The high road I'm talking about, in general, is to improve by making the quality of your workforce, your companies better, not by shielding them from competition.
China's gov't saw the value in Rare Earths. They realized that the key to owning the high tech industry was owning the resources. Japan is built on rare earths. Europe is too. nearly all modern high-tech comes from the resource. China flooded the market so it could own the resource and gain a monopolistic advantage. Very smart. Once it had that advantage, it can use it to build vertically and take over high tech industries despite not having to develop the R&D itself. It's absolutely brilliant and only could be done with perfect coordination of industry and gov't. This is why China tried to buy Rare earth mines in Australia. It's trying to dominate the game. If the U.S. tries to re-enter the rare earths game, rest assured China will open up the exports to drop the price and drive the companies out of business. Then play the same game again. Hey - I am complimenting China - I see the sure brilliance of what they do. But as we say, the jig is up and we're onto it.
And that, is the kind of response I've come to expect from you, Deckard. Perhaps if I was given a point to actually argue, perhaps I wouldn't be here calling you a moron. I did not fail to notice that, as usual, you didn't answer any of my questions. It may also come as a shock to you, but China (by which I assumed you mean the Chinese government) doesn't need me defending her or her interests. Quite frankly, the Chinese government doesn't care much what you think and this site here is also rather low on the priority list. My postings here has nothing about zilch to do with any supposed "insecurities in foreign/internal policy" and such. I do want to highlight one other thing, of course, other than the fact that you acted like a moronic question dodger precisely as I predicted. That is how remarkably accurate Karlfranklin predicted your behaviour. Shall I highlight? It is, of course, not limited to this thread: http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=193809&page=3&pp=20 Should I go back even further? Seriously Deckard, your posts are so pathetically predictable that I can think of at least several key search terms that could pull up pretty much all your posts when it comes to China. Terns such as "brainwashed," or "can't criticize the Chinese government." Heck, it's so predictable that it was only gonna be a matter of time before somebody other than me, like Karlfranklin, realized the same thing. I think it was a year and half ago when I said you engage in ad hominem attacks on Chinese posters without addressing the substance of their post. You insult them. Of course, this is not a woo is me point. The real point is, I call you a moron, but I can take it as well as dish out whereas you just pretend to follow forum rules. And of course, the biggest difference between you and me? As I said already, I actually prove WHY you're a moron.
U.S. has to be strong. China sees Obama as weak. China is where the U.S. was 50 years ago - not in technology or gov't, but in terms of it's outlook of the world. The media here has grown savvy to the tricks of corporate imperialism and it's much harder for companies to get away with that. Not true with China. But China plays a meaner harder game than I've ever seen play. The U.S. bullied the weak, China is bullying the strong. That's impressive. The U.S. has to be strong and can't shy from a fight. China will back down if it sees the U.S. is willing to sacrafice the short term for the long term. Right now, China has assessed the U.S. to be greedy and short-minded, and they are right. They know they can get what they want by short term carrots. But if the U.S. gov't can say enough is enough and play the tough game, willing to fire hard back and take things to the brink, China will be the one to back down. It has more to lose right now. That won't always be the case. But this is a test for the U.S., I really believe that China is testing us as a nation and seeing how dominant she can become. This is a crucial moment, and if the world can draw a line in the sand and say no nation shall ever again dominate the world economically, we can truly move towards a multi national partnership. Otherwise, China is just the next in line to replace whatever it was before it.
Wait, so pointing out what the system is, rather than making it a simple democracy vs communism, is "defending" the system? Does this mean all the liberal posters here are actually fans of Fox News. Lord knows plenty deride it and see past the nasty spinning that goes on. Does this mean everyone here actually LIKES how our news is all about ratings and shock factor rather than substance? If that's the case, yes, I defend the system. Personally, I feel that drinking the "China is bad because they are evil communists with no human rights and US is great because we spread democracy all over the world" koolaid would seem more inline with what people here generally accuse the conservatives are doing. That is, they use prejudice and preconceptions to follow along like sheep because quite frankly, they're easy to follow than the truth, which is convoluted and involves people that we never see besides a couple of 30sec segments on news every now and then.
you know if you weren't so disrespectful in your posts I'd actually reply to them. But when I see the word "idiot" in them, I simply write you off. I know China sees the U.S. as the bully, but the fact is, we no longer are the world's dominant player. A lot of influence yes, but the U.S. is already a shell of the Juggernaut it was. Free Trade, NAFTA, and all the stuff done by Clinton / Bush has reduced us. Not all of that is bad. The American standard of living our economy has benefited from free trade and all that. By the same token, China AND the U.S. can benefit if China opens her markets and takes away the restrictions. But there is so much mistrust at this stage, it won't happen. Sometimes things have to escalate and the game of chicken has to play itself out before things can be righted.
What exactly are your aims and goals for America to meet, Sweet Lou? I hear a call of arms, but to what? That 15 year mark is for the whole supply chain to form. One estimate is for new mining operations to be up and running in another 2 or 3 years. Does anyone else find it very perverse coming out of the BP debacle that some of the people sickened by offshore drilling are jumping head first into an industry that met its death here partly because of environmental and radioactive concerns? Superfund was not a comic book. Seems people are jumping into this without thought or foresight.
