Tmac played on a swollen knee, and played well, Manu played on a bum ankle and played poorly. What does that all mean....nothing in relation to the discussion. DD
Even if it's just injuries the critical point is that T-Mac will always be accumulating those. He might come into next season healthy but it's almost guaranteed that over the course of the season he'll get banged up--maybe not enough to make him miss more than a handful of games but enough to hinder him and make him lose a step.
And attributing that to McGrady is incorrect. I think it was Celzic on MSNBC who pointed out that the Rockets were winning because of that most elusive of qualties, team chemistry. There any number of games in that last streak of ten wins where McGrady disappeared and the rest of the team stepped up. The win against LA is probably the perfect example.
Interesting, and with that being the case, Rick Adelman needs to manage his minutes to keep him fresh for the playoffs. DD
I never brought the injuries, maybe another poster did, I was pretty much speaking in general terms, since T-Mac is a better player than Manu anyway, regardless of injuries. I meant to say the Spurs would've probably one a few more games with T-Mac...I can't see anybody even Kobe putting the breaks on T-Mac for 5 or 7 straight games....or completely taking him out of the equation. T-Mac is a better scorer, passer, rebounder, and playmaker than Manu ever will be, and it happens to be younger.
Again, I by no means am saying that Tracy McGrady is perfect. However, you seem to undermine his importance to the team. How can you actually say the NO, LA, and Dallas are inferior teams when TWO of those teams actually accomplished more in the playoffs than the Rockets. The Rockets might I remind you were missing the 7'6" behemoth known as Yao Ming when they beat these teams and even Landry at times. Needless to say, the Rockets were all sorts of banged up when we were on our 22 game winning streak. As for the players you mentioned, only 2, Manu and Pierce made it further into the playoffs. And a BOATLOAD of them didn't even get to the playoffs. You stated earlier that Denver was the best team we beat and they were swept in the playoffs. If you are going to go that route, Atlanta took Boston who I might add is one-win away from entering the Finals to 7-games...maybe you aren't giving the Rockets or even Atlanta ENOUGH credit. Also, you admit yourself that Tracy McGrady is better than the other options (minus Kobe and LeBron)...so why would you want to downgrade in the first place? Double teams double teams double http://youtube.com/watch?v=qtQwttFX2lk&feature=related You watched the games. HE PLAYED in the games. I can respect your opinion if you think another player would be a better fit for the Rockets, but instead of saying you'll explain...you'll explain....Stop throwing out one-liners and explain yourself. I shouldn't even have to ask if you were really trying to prove a point. One last thing, I apologize for the ignorant comment, hopefully no hard feelings.
Their points per minute are fairly close and Manu is more efficient. Yes but not by that much. I already conceded that TMac is more talented, but Manu plays harder making the discussion relevant. Tmac is arguably the most talented player in the entire league, but he is also one of the laziest, and that is frustrating, he could be so much better if he really wanted to be, but he just settles far too often and that is hurting him from reaching his potential and the team as well. DD
You know, I may not agree with you completely about Tmac but I respect your view points and arguments. DD
Per 36 minutes is not necessarily a great indicator (it only predicts what a player might do over the course of 36 minutes), because you see some inferior players on the bench who have numbers that are comparable to some of the starters, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they are better players. Let's be honest, if we put Ginobili on some hapless cellar dwellar....I can't see him averaging 30 ppg for entire season (at any point in his career). He's not that kind of player....the Rockets would probably worse, if they ever made such trade. We know T-Mac can, because he has done it year in and year out. T-mac can get to 40 or 50 on any given night, probably moreso than any other player not named Lebron, Kobe, and possibly Iverson. Ginobili has had some great games and can put up ton of points to, but if it came to where the teams said we are going to take him out of the game...it's easier to do so with him than is with T-Mac. http://www.nba.com/playerfile/emanuel_ginobili/career_stats.html/ http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mcgratr01.html/ Statistically, I still think T-Mac is a superior player, he's scoring is comparable to the likes of Dominique Wilkins, Kobe Bryant, and Dr. J, while his rebounds and assist are very comparable to Scottie Pippen. Even factoring the per 36 minutes rate, T-Mac is still a better player. I would never trade T-Mac straight up for Manu, and would expect some other players to be involved ... quality players and draft picks at that. http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/ginobma01.html
HAHA..."Love T-Mac"...never stated that, but I do admire his game and I do think he is a bit under-appreciated at times. He may not be as athletic or attack the basket as much as he used to, but he's does what he can to help the team win. People complain that he doesn't shoot enough when the Rockets lose and they say he shoots too much when they win. As he proved in the playoffs, he can definitely still hang big number on the stat sheet but you'll also notice that he is getting others involved as well. Keep up the posts DD
And who was the guy that opened up all those open shots guys like Battier and Rafer had? T-Mac. The key to our offense, when it is clicking on all cylinders, is T-Mac attracting double teams and making the correct pass. It is why the offense was so unsuccessful early in the season when Adelman tried to use him as designated scorer...we don't have the firepower in other places to take the playmaking role off of T-Mac's shoulders. Our guys are dependent on T-Mac making plays for them and spoon feeding them wide open shots. It is why, despite his down year statistically, he was 4th in the league in usage % this year and 1st in usage % last year. And when we needed a big game from him, he delivered. He had huge games against NO (41/9/6), Dallas (31/9/3), Atlanta (28/9/2), and Denver (22/6/6) in those wins without Yao. And in that one game where he put up a clunker (LA), he took over when the game was within 3 and had 8pts and 2 assists in a 6 minute stretch of the 4th quarter. In the last 10 games of the streak (w/o Yao), T-Mac averaged 24.3PPG/5.3APG/5.6RPG/45.9% shooting. But yeah, don't attribute the last 10 games of our streak to T-Mac and his terrific play
I agree with the bolded part especially...with all his talent he could have been better than Kobe and approching MJ level if he only took advantage of his opportunities and work hard EVERY OFFSEASON. I still think there time for him to win a ring but to go down as one of the best all time that will never be an obtainable goal anymore.
Honestly, it is funny, I love Tmac too, but that doesn't mean I am willing to simply overlook the fact that he has his warts, or that other players might be comparible to him at a better value contract wise. It is strange, people get so attached to players, for me I look at them all as assets for the team, the TEAM is what I care about, and if trading Tmac makes the team better....then CHOO CHOO...I am driving that train baby ! DD
I knew it... But joking aside, one thing people also have to remember is that the NBA is first and foremost a business. I see Trade T-Mac and Trade Yao threads all the time. Hypothetically, at first glance some people may feel inclined to trade the likes of Yao Ming straight up for say Dwight Howard. Bu honestly, if you were in Leslie Alexander's chair, you may have to think twice about doing something like that. While it could potentially benefit your team on the court, you also have to consider the millions if not billions of dollars being made off of the Yao the Cash Cow. Same thing goes for T-Mac. I currently live overseas (Taiwan), and I must say he is wildly popular here as well as on the Mainland. As a fan, we aren't placed in the same predicament as say the head honchos working in the Rocket's office. The NBA now-a-days with its multi-million dollar contracts and billion dollar arenas is more than simply about placing a competitive team on the court, but it is also about milking it for all its worth.
This is exactly my point, Nitro. People don't seem to understand that Tracy McGrady does more than simply score points. He helps to facilitate the offense while making those around him better. 55-wins with the injury bug hitting more than both our stars is no small feat and the 22-game winning streak made the Rockets the talk of the town again, just like the good old days. As for the Celizic comment made by the other fan...and when did Celizic of MSNBC become the "Word of the Land". C'mon...Celizic...I think your going to have to do better than that...I'm sure he's just an NBA encyclopedia just waiting to be opened.... Good points Nitro, keep up the posts.
I didn't think that was part of the discussion. I thought it was more of a who's better/who would you rather have kinda thing. If money is in the conversation i think he is the best bang for your buck of anyone old enough to get the max.
When we beat them during our streak, they were inferior. They were missing West, Dirk, and Gasol. When these players returned, their respective teams became quality ones. Yao was lost for the season. During our streak, we were as good as we were going to ever be this season (after the injury). And compared to the elite teams in the NBA, it wasnt that good. Its illogical to gauge individual worth based on team success. The Atlanta team of the playoffs was much different than the Atlanta team of the regular season. Manu earns 9 million this year. Tmac earns 20 million. Tmac isnt good enough to justify an 11 million increase in salaries. I make a lot of points. When you tell me to explain without being specific as to which point, I need you to clarify.
