Yao being there for 12 of the 22 games, in my opinion, was brought up b/c quite a few posters are saying that Tmac led them to a 22 game win streak which is incorrect. The ability to crush inferior opponents doesnt make us an elite team.
Manu has a bad series. I am suprised why he didn't drive to the basket more. He shoot a lot of 3s! He is either injured or tired. Maybe he just didn't try his best. After all, he has 3 rings already and has the olympic title to defend this summer.
the winning streak could been a lot longer. yao missed that utah game at home after we had won 6 in a row. so i could argue that with yao we won 16 and without him we won 12 during a 29-game span. and yes, there is a lot of luck in our 22-win streak. not to say it's a fluke. it takes a lot hard work and smart gameplan. but you actually need quite bit of luck to make such a streak (especially when you have key injuries on your own team). luck is actually a big reason imo why such a streak is so hard to come by.
Ginobli had an atrocious series. He isnt even near the same level as Tmac. This guy dissapears and no one cares cause Parker and Duncan can still light it up, covering for him. Its disgusting how much some people here underappreciate what McGrady brings to this team. Theres only 2 players in the league who could do here what McGrady does: Lebron and Kobe. Thats elite company. So the guy gets injured, so what ? He has brought his "A" game in every playoff series in the past 3 years.
i probably won't trade mcgrady for manu str8 up even if the salaries did match. but manu can't be just tired, 'cause everyone is tired at this point of the season. he came back from a bummed ankle. for a guy who relies a lot on speed and acrobatic moves, that has to be the biggest reason why he sucked in the wcf (actually the playoffs as a whole).
Actually, Lebron and Kobe can surpass what Mcgrady does. However, theres a long list of players who are inferior to Tmac, but not by much (in no particular order). Wade, Iverson, Kevin Martin, Joe Johnson, Arenas, Joe Johnson, Pierce, Ginobili, Redd, Carter, Hamilton
Crushing the Nuggets, Hawks, Mavs, Hornets and Lakers without Yao, even if those teams had injuries of their own, is still extremely impressive IMO.
Now that there's a fine for flopping, I would probably only trade Manu for Head or Loren Woods. Just kidding. Manu is an extremely good player and a warrior, but I absolutely wouldn't trade TMac for Manu straight up. TMac is just too good.
Recap. If we never traded Rudy Gay for Shane Battier, I would do the trade. Manu + Filler for Tmac. We would have 3 offensive threats and spread the defense really well with 2 guys who can relentlessly attack the basket instead of taking many 25 footers.
I would agree that Kobe is currently the NBA's best player and LeBron has yet to fulfill his potential (kinda scary if you think about considering the fact that he is only 23 years of age), I disagree with your assessment of Tracy McGrady. How do you judge players as being only "slightly" inferior to McGrady. Again, there are only two players in this league that possess McGrady's size and offensive prowess (including their ability to make those around them better). You ever stretches of games when McGrady isn't playing? It is damn near unwatchable at times...you got Flava Flav trying to "get his own" every time and Luther Head doing his best "Stevie Franchise" impression while the rest of the guys stand around the 3 point-line waiting for someone to pass them the ball...but wait...HE'S SITTING ON THE BENCH. In my opinion a player's ability and importance to a team can't be solely derived from stats. Another thing....you stated that "beating inferior teams does not make us an elite team"....but think about this...NOT beating those teams means... give credit to where credit is due, the 22 wins was pretty damn impressive if you still aren't convinced about Tracy McGrady's importance to the team...I leave you with this: TRACY MCGRADY: HE'S A KEEPER He's never been out of the first round. He's always injured. He plays with no Heart. 19 million dollars!?! Trade Him. When Tracy McGrady first arrived from the Orlando Magic, he was widely perceived as "the Savior" who along with Yao Ming would bring relevance back to a team that had spent several years sputtering away in the doldrums of the NBA. As time passed, what were seemingly small chips in the paint begin to form cracks in the walls. Like meeting a fine girl for the first time, one is oblivious from the flaws that have yet to be exposed. Tracy McGrady is fine player. He is a 7-time All-Star with 2 Scoring Titles to his name and if you were to ask the players that have played against or with him, they will tell you that he is one of the most gifted players to touch a basketball, EVER. With his immense talents, he likewise has his flaws. Tracy McGrady is a human being, like you and I. He's well aware of the media that questions his heart and the bandwagon fans that scream "OFF WITH HIS HEAD, TRADE HIM ALREADY" every single time the Rockets stumble through a rough patch in the road. Because Mr. "It's On Me" carries a 19-million dollar price tag and the distinction of being the "Greatest Player to Never Make It Out of the First Round", people have come to the conclusion that Tracy McGrady is a loser, and even worse, a "Player with no Heart". I beg to differ. In his 4 seasons with the Rockets he along with the Rockets have amassed a regular season record of 192-136, a .580 winning % along with 3 competitive, yet heartbreaking trips to the playoffs. To put that into perspective, in the FIVE previous Stevie "Franchise" Years the Rockets amassed a record of 195-215 with a .475 Winning % in the regular season with one, ONE, read, UNO playoff appearance which pretty much ended before it even started against the Lakers. So who's fault was it that the Rockets were simple marginal-at-best and at sometimes unbearable to watch during the seasons preceding McGrady's tenure as a Houston Rocket? Rudy Tomjanovich? Caroll Dawson? Steve Francis? Since people seem to believe that there are 19 million reasons to fault McGrady for the team's lack of playoff success and label him a loser, let us take a peek around the league to see who else should be labeled a LOSER and only returning "2 cents on the dollar" shall we? Top NBA Salaries 1. Kevin Garnett Boston $23,750,000 2. Michael Finley Dallas / San Antonio $21,696,750 3. Stephon Marbury New York $20,109,375 -. Allen Iverson Denver $20,109,375 5. Shaquille O'Neal Phoenix $20,000,000 6. Jason Kidd Dallas $19,728,000 7. Jermaine O'Neal Indiana $19,710,000 8. Chris Webber Golden State $19,596,244 9. Kobe Bryant LA Lakers $19,490,625 10. Tim Duncan San Antonio $19,014,187 -. Tracy McGrady Houston $19,014,187 12. Baron Davis Golden State $16,440,000 -. Shawn Marion Phoenix $16,440,000 -. Steve Francis Portland / Houston $16,440,000 15. Antawn Jamison Washington $16,360,095 -. Dirk Nowitzki Dallas $16,360,095 -. Paul Pierce Boston $16,360,095 18. Ray Allen Boston $16,000,000 19. Rashard Lewis Orlando$15,600,000 20. Ben Wallace Cleveland$15,500,000 21. Elton Brand LA Clippers $15,344,000 22. Michael Redd Milwaukee $14,520,000 23. Mike Bibby Atlanta $14,175,000 24. Yao Ming Houston $13,762,775 -. Amare Stoudemire Phoenix $13,762,775 26. Pau Gasol LA Lakers $13,709,375 -. Andrei Kirilenko Utah $13,709,375 28. Lamar Odom LA Lakers $13,524,000 29. Joe Johnson Atlanta $13,488,377 30. Zach Randolph New York $13,488,377 Looking at the makeup of the NBA’s highest-paid players, there are 10 players that make more money than Tracy McGrady. Of those ten players, only three of them (Garnett, Bryant, Duncan) can arguably be said to make significant contributions to their respective teams. And if you look about two spots below McGrady…you see…let’s not even go there. I mean the guy was riding pine on the Knicks and was paid $30 million to LEAVE the Blazers… However, onto another point, since everybody seems to define success by playoff success, let us analyze a little further shall we. Of those ten players, only four of them are still playing in the playoffs this year with two of them representing the same team (Spurs). While KG has two other budding All-Stars (Pierce and Allen) to help him carry the load, Bryant has finally found his Robin (Gasol), and Duncan likewise has team of International Superstars (Parker and Ginobili), McGrady has…a streetball legend (Skip To My Lou), 1000 year-old Relic (Mutombo), Flava Flav (Bobby Jackson, but that was definitely Flav that showed up in the Playoffs) to work with. Every single night McGrady is asked to score all the points, help facilitate the offense, be a great defender (not saying he is), I think there may be SOME reason as to why he may “run out of gas” in the 4th Quarter. Nobody in the league, and I mean NOBODY is asked to do more for his team than Tracy McGrady. Some of you may say, what about LeBron James? What about LeBron James? His team won 45 games in the (L)Eastern Conference while the Rockets won 10 MORE games in a more competitive conference without significant pieces cough*YAO MING*cough for extended periods of time. OK then, what about Kobe Bryant? HAH, Kobe may be the best damn player in the league, but prior to this season he never ONCE took the Lakers past the First Round of the playoffs following the departure of Shaq (its also covenient when you've got a Gasol and swiped in for nothing). It is also my understanding that Kobe wasn’t exactly shy about calling out teammates (BYNUM),management (KUPCHAK), and even the coach (JACKSON) when things weren’t going the KOBE way. He had pretty much bailed on his own teammates this past off-season and was playing hard-to-get with management until they finally were able to dupe the Grizzlies into giving up Gasol for a little more than a bag of chips. Now Houston fans, for a player that “plays with no heart” and is a “perpetual loser”, you have to admit Tracy McGrady is one, pretty resilient guy. Despite the unfortunate events (i.e. injuries to Yao Ming) and what can only be described as a rag-tag group of professional ballers, he has never ONCE complained about his role on the team or come even remotely close as to TURN HIS BACK on his team. When Yao Ming went down last year, he rose up to the occasion and led to the Rockets to a playoff berth it what ultimately was a heart-breaking 7-game series (extra painful for me as I was actually at this game). When he had “accepted the role” as the team’s leader and declared that it was “On Me”, he was absolutely VILIFIED by a media who had decided to exploit the “2nd Round Virgin” tag and portray him as being pompous and selfish. However, let’s be honest here, if the Rockets were to lose and they did, Tracy McGrady was due for beat down from a self-serving media and un-knowledgeable fans (The one’s that say he shoots too much when the Rockets win, but doesn’t shoot enough when they lose; YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE). Fast forward to this year, amidst a season-high win streak of 12 games, the Rockets receive the devastating news that Yao Ming was finished for the season. Playoff hopes were thrown out the window as analyst upon analyst (Charley “Rockets Hater” Rosen, Chris Hollinger, Stephen A. Smith to name a few) had declared the Rockets, “deader than dead”. With solid contributions from the team, Tracy McGrady was able to lead the team to not only the top of the Western Conference at one point, a miraculous 22-game win streak that made the team the talk of the town, and another trip to the playoffs where the Rockets would do battle against the much-hated Jazz. After being bounced from the playoffs in the 1st Round, fingers are a-pointing and once again we are back to exactly where we were a year ago. Trade him. For whom exactly? The number of players that possess Tracy McGrady’s size and offensive prowess are few and far between. On top of that, how many of those guys also possess the court vision and the unselfishness to help make their teammates better. One, maybe two. LeBron and Kobe (the jury is still out on him as for the unselfish part). You are obviously NOT going to get those two players in return. In other words…how about let’s NOT be Memphis and shoot ourselves in the foot. If you were to trade Tracy McGrady away for say the likes of Luol Deng, Ben Gordon, or Shawn Marion; who’s going to be able to feed Yao the ball or get the whole team involved? Rafer Alston, the only other person who has been scrutinized by Rockets bandwagon fans as much as McGrady? Flava “Always Looking for My Own Shot” Flav? Or maybe Luther “the Whole World Cringes when I put the ball on the Floor” Head? I didn’t think so. Sometimes, the best trades are the ones never made. But he’s ALWAYS injured. More injury-prone than Chris Webber, Jermaine O’Neal, Shaquille O’Neal, Steve Francis, Baron Davis or maybe unproductive like Stephon Marbury, Ben Wallace, Michael Finley, and so on. As you can see, the Rockets don’t have it NEARLY as bad as some of the other teams in the League and maybe Tracy McGrady does do more than MOST of the players making similarly gargantuan amounts of money. If you watched the Rockets-Jazz series; you witnessed a man playing with a torn labrum (shoulder) and essentially one leg averaging a near-triple double for the series trying to “impose his will” as he likes to say on an obviously over-matched Rockets team so they can extend their season one more game, while delaying the on-slaught of Tracy McGrady bashing following an inevitable end to a spectacular season. The Rockets certainly made a believer out of me. Tracy McGrady made a believer out of me. Tracy McGrady has flaws. He is after all, human; like you and I. He is also an immensely talented basketball player who due to his deceiving “sleepy-eyed” look often has people questioning his heart and desire as a player. If you even watched the Rockets-Jazz series this year, you saw a player who laid it all on the line for his team and for all Houston Rockets fans. While he may not be perfect, how many of us actually are? Tracy McGrady is human. Tracy McGrady is a basketball player. Tracy McGrady is a winner (at least in my book). But most importantly, Tracy McGrady is a Keeper.
Sometimes I wish T-Mac was traded for a player like Ginobili. Just so Tracy can finally have teammates who step up in the playoffs and get some rings. Then I think about how terrible the Rockets would be. McGrady can get Houston to the playoffs, but he can't beat a team in a seven game series. By game 3 or 4, teams figure out they can double/triple team him and no one else will step up. Yet he still manages to average 28ppg. Bobby Jackson started games 1 and 2 and the Rockets didn't get blown out. Jackson Manu Battier Scola Mutombo
Are you even reading what you are writing? "Sometimes I wish T-Mac was traded for a player like Ginobili. Just so Tracy can finally have teammates who step up in the playoffs and get some rings. Then I think about how terrible the Rockets would be." You stated yourself that T-Mac is the one who get the Rockets to the playoffs and you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT that he needs help when it comes to getting the Rockets further into the playoffs. With the exception of probably Scola and Alston at times, he had absolutely NO HELP. The Jazz figured out that the Rockets were essentially riding a T-Mac who was playing with a torn labrum and a bum knee and capitalized on that. Boozer said it himself...something to the tune of "we don't give a damn how many points he scores...if nobody else is going help him..." The difference maker in the first two games could have been a healthy Rafer Alston. I believe firmly that it would have made a difference in the first two games. It showed when the Rockets were able to defeat the Jazz in Game # 3...on the JAZZ HomeCourt. I could just as easily argue, Bobby Jackson had ALOT to do with why the Rockets lost those first two games. If you even watched the first two games you saw a guy who was essentially running around like a "chicken with his head cut off" and seriously never thought twice about handing the ball over to other teammates. Just for you here are Bobby Jackson's stats for the playoffs: Playoffs Team G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG First Round HOU 6 2 23.0 0.286 0.208 0.636 0.3 1.3 1.7 1.5 0.8 0.0 0.67 1.80 8.7 Oh...and his defense on Deron Williams ...lets not even go there.... The last point I want to make is a Loss is a loss, no matter how many damn points you lose by. T-Mac did pretty much did everything humanly possible to keep the Rockets in this series, but he didn't have enough help. What I do know for a fact that Bobby Jackson is NOT the reason the Rockets were in this series. The Rockets were over-matched without a doubt and they gave them (the Jazz) a good run.
It means that Tmac brings more to the table. But not much more. Pick a player and I'll explain. His offensive prowess is overrated. He doesnt drive that much and he isnt a particularly good jump shooter. When he's making them, he's unstoppable, but that rarely happens. Sounds like a problem with personnel. Which can be derived from limitations from the salary cap. Guess who is making 20 million a year? Not beating inferior teams means that we're one of the inferior teams. Our objective is to be elite, remember? To be elite, we must consistently beat the quality teams. This is not hard to understand.
Tmac is no longer dominant and it looks like he has lost a lot of his quickness. Now, maybe that is due to injury, we shall see. DD
That's reasonable. I know there's alot of homer's but I think on an average people think more highly of Tmac in other cities than they do here in houston. People who watch him more tend to get so frustrated with his jumpshooting mentality that they start to hate him and start to think very lowly of him. I've heard people compare him to much worse than Ginobli. Of course there are people here who think he's the second coming but in other places their not so fickle. Heck, some people think Ginobli isn't that far away from Kobe (sometimes Hollinger says some crazy things).
First off, the fact is the Rockets DID beat those inferior teams and they DID beat some decent teams (i.e Dallas, LA, New Orleans, etc), therefore they are a GOOD TEAM. I agree, their goal is to be an elite team, better yet a championship caliber team, but the Rockets pretty much maxed out the roster they had. Sure, you can argue some of their players were missing, but Yao was likewise missing not to mention Landry at times. Offensive prowess overrated? I don't think so. A player's offensive prowess is defined solely by his ability to put the ball in the basket. What it also encompasses is the player's ability to get others involved and help facilitate the offensive. Overrated? Tell that to the 30 other coaches in the NBA that gear their defenses towards stopping T-Mac day and night by means of double and triple teaming him. As for personnel, I've never really been a big fan of Carroll Dawson and I do think that Daryl Morey will prove to be a more competent GM. The Rockets have had a never-ending history of handing out bloated contracts (i.e Francis, Cato, Taylor, Norris, Maloney...I can name you a billion). I think the Rockets have improved in this department. Another thing, why don't you take a look at that list of the highest-paid players in the NBA...seems like the Rockets aren't the only ones in a bind. A bunch of teams are worse off than we are. I got a better idea for you, how about YOU pick a player not named Kobe and LeBron and try to explain yourself. This is what I honestly think, YOU think you know more about basketball than you actually do know which leads to think that you can respond to everyone's comments with dumb one-liners that obviously serve no purpose (certainly doesn't support any arguments....OH WAIT I forgot you CAN'T actually think of a legitimate argument so you resort to r****ded one sentence statements) other than emphasize how ignorant of a fan you really are.
The problem is that not all teams now double and triple Tmac, they just don't. If you have a decent athletic wing, they can guard him one on one..... Quentin Richardson said that all you have to do is be physical with Tmac and he will back down. He is 100% correct. Tmac is a lot easier to guard now than he was, maybe due to injuries, at least I hope so. DD
Illogical assumption. We beat Dallas w/o Dirk, NO w/o West, and LAL without Gasol. Without those players, I'd consider those teams to be inferior. Seems like you just contradicted yourself. In any case, he doesnt drive to the basket as much as he used to, and he has trouble outjumping opponents when he takes his jump shot. Earlier in his career, he outplayed his opponents through his athleticism. But as that athleticism has waned over the years, so has Tmac's effectiveness. When Kobe's athleticism started diminishing, he compensated by developing a post game. Tmac has compensated by taking jump shots that are further and further away. Who double/triple teams him? I looked for this in the playoffs. The jazz used single coverage. I already listed several people. If you want me to elaborate one any of them, give me a name. Ignorant? Funny. I logically support every assertion I make. If you have a question, feel free to ask and I'll explain.
After watching this series, the thread should be in solid favorite of T-Mac. No way T-Mac averages less than 20 ppg for the whole series. If the Spurs had T-Mac instead of Manu, they would still be in the series.
And a lot of those teams were crippled by injuries. Luck doesn't hurt when it comes to rolling up a big win streak.
