Would you trade John Wall & 3 - 4 1st rounders for Ben Simmons?

This. If it was Wall straight up for Simmons, the deal would probably be fine as the cap space that Simmons takes up would probably be used for a Simmons-quality player. The giving up picks and taking on his salary in 2024 and 2025 is a double whammy. It basically says that Green or Sengun has to be a superstar for the Rockets to contend with this trade. Though if Green or Sengun is a superstar, having 60M+ in cap space is going to attract another star or 2.

 

If you acquired Ben, next years pick wouldn’t be nearly as valuable. Real question is, what do you want more: next year’s pick or Simmons?

I’ll be honest, I’d be excited to get him, but I just think it’s VERY tough to picture him in an offense where he doesn’t have the ball. Even Draymond is at least serviceable from 3. Simmons would bring a lot of the same issues we saw with Westbrook on offense, but the defense would be greatly improved. But then again, having Wood as a shooter may not be such a bad fit… It’s tough to say no.

 

Depends on exactly what you'd give up, but the odds are that Ben Simmons as the 3rd or 4th best player on the team would be considerably better going forward than your mystery box. Especially when that mystery box is likely to be a pick outside of the top 5.

 

Agree. Even if mystery box is #1, i.e White KD, i’d rather have Simmons with all his warts. White KD gives this very strong Shawn Bradley vibe…

 

Real question is , what do you want more: next years pick and $60m in cap space or Simmons and $18m in cap space ?

 

To do what with?

Locking down a core of KPJ, Wood, Green, Simmons long term would probably be better than cap space and a random rookie.

 

Genuine curiosity: How do you think having both KPJ and Simmons would work when both DEFINITELY needs the ball in their hands? Unless you're thinking that either KPJ or Simmons should come off the bench? Staggering both a la CP3/Harden isn't a good strategy in this scenario because neither are the same offensive weapons like CP3 (mid range) or Harden (all-around scorer).

 

KPJ would be the PG and primary ball handler since he's best at it. Simmons would be a 4th or 5th option on offense.....which would open up more easy opportunities for him. Between KPJ, Wood, and Green there would be plenty of offense. Where Simmons really helps is on the other end of the ball.

The fact that Simmons is a competent passer would allow him to take some pressure off KPJ every now and again, but he wouldn't be a centerpiece of the offense. Having 2 competent ball handlers on the court at the same time wouldn't be a bad thing when you have an off ball scorer like Green out there and a lob threat like Wood next to them.

 

The appeal of Ben Simmons is that he has very very good court vision and to take primary ball handling duties away from him and give it to Porter (who is good in his own right but I think we can agree Simmons is the better of the two) more or less nukes the few strengths Simmons bring to the team. If we're expecting Simmons to play off ball and do more cutting while Porter sets the offense I guess that could work but you're asking the other four players on the court to make a concerted effort in finding Simmons around the basket, which increases the chances for turnovers due to the traffic and number of players that are inside the 3 point line.

 

We have no way of knowing that. By not blowing our cap on Simmons we are far more flexible for the possibility this core underperforms.

I don’t see why we should want to commit to this core so early.

 

your game is so limited that u can’t fit with highly skilled, MVP caliber Embiid…LOL

Will Ben Simmons ever take responsibility for not working on his game?

 

That's my point, we have no way of knowing there'd be anyone worth using the cap space on, we have no way of knowing there would be an impact player worth drafting.

I'm suggesting certainty over the mystery box.

Now of course, if you look at KPJ, Wood, Green, and Simmons and you see nothing but trash, it makes sense why you'd want to hold out for the mystery box, but I see 4 young potential all star caliber players together for their entire primes. That's better than wishing and hoping for a miracle in the future at some point IMO.

Why would there necessarily be a lot of players inside the 3 point line? Simmons would become potentially the only player on the court that isn't a 3 point threat.

Also, you keep acting like Simmons should be a focal point of the offense.....I'm suggesting he be the 4th or 5th option most of the time.

 

This is who some of y’all would want to pay 33, 35, 39, and 40 mil to the next 4 years? Make it make sense

 

The commitment has already been made. You are having Wall sit for KPJ, and you spent the highest pick we’ve had in 20 years on Green. I’d be more worried if they did those things and still didn’t want to fully commit.

But it does say that your core is set moving forward if you trade for Ben. It’s too early to say, but a lineup of:

KPJ
JG
Tate
Simmons - he can shift to be your backup 5 and be your backup 1. That’s pretty insane.
Wood

Is that going to ever be a contender? You have time to wait and see if a different player could fit better instead of Ben, but there’s no sure thing that player will be available or choose to come here. Ben could be that guy, but it’s impossible to know that. This would be a tough call.

 

Neat-O Stat of the day: Ben Simmons Win Shares has precipitously fallen since his first year of actually playing in the NBA

2017-2018: 9.2
2018-2019: 8.2
2019-2020: 6.9
2020-2021: 6.0

 

Nope, he's been that way since college

 

I don't think I was "acting" like Simmons should be a focal point of the offense because I presented a scenario where he is basically an off-ball cutter:

But if you're suggesting that I'm "acting" like Simmons should be a focal point of the offense because I'm questioning the validity of taking the ball away from a player whose single greatest strength requires him to actually have the ball then, yes, I guess I'm acting like Simmons should be the focal point of the offense. If you're not going to have Simmons be your primary ball handler and primary play maker then you're effectively paying $30+ a year for an elite defensive stopper, that's it.

 

I would argue you are getting hung up on his pay when that is largely irrelevant if you already have the rest of the core intact. That said having an elite defensive stopper with PG level passing skills that can also be a lob threat on a team surrounded by shooters....who wouldn't even have to carry the burden of initiating the offense.

I mean, that's not a bad thing.

 

I just don't see why the Rockets would want to commit to a guy (simmons) that couldn't be a part of the offense in the playoffs. It's a catch 22.... the assets the Rockets should give up for Ben Simmons will be insufficient for the Sixers.

 

I'm confused as to why I can't factor in (or "hung up" as you called it) Simmons' salary as part of the whole "Let's Get Simmons" discussion. The allure of having Ben Simmons, at $30+ million a year, is that he can be your primary ball handler on offense while be a defensive stopper on the defensive end of the ball. By taking away primary ball handling duties from him you're essentially paying $30+ a year for a prime Andre Iguodala without a jump shot and clutch factor. The salary cap is pretty real and, by what we've seen thus far, Fertitta believes it to be pretty real as well.

In the end it sounds (and correct me if i'm wrong) you are okay with alleviating point guard duties from Simmons (e.g. "wouldn't even have to carry the burden of initiating the offense") who, by and large, has shown no inclination of deviating from that role (see: latest Athletic report on how Embiid's game don't fit with Simmons') and would want to allocate about 25% of the team's payroll for his defense. I mean it's definitely better than paying Wall $40+ a year for him to sit on his ass but I think there are better ways to use cap space than to trade Wall and 4 1st rounders (assuming we're staying on track with this thread here) for Simmons and tell him "We don't want you to be the point guard; we just want you to play defense and put in a few dunks a night". To me it would have made more sense to say "Let's trade for Simmons, have Green start in the backcourt with Ben, and move KPJ to the bench to be our 6th man".