Offense may win games, but defense earns you champion ships Or at least that's how I think that quote went.
gordon is a charming player,but battier is a team maker and wonderful defender.we have enough scorers,YAO TMAC BEAST SCOLA,why should we trade a good supplementing player for another scorer who needs more shots ?thats unwise!
I'd have a look at Thabo Sefolosha. A 6-6 backup PG. Bulls currently have 11 players signed. The league minimum is 13 players. Thabo for Head Singletary + Ewing via the min exceptn. Rose, (Hinrich), Head, Singletary Hinrich, Gordon, Hughes Deng, Nocioni, Ewing Gooden, Thomas, Simmons Noah, Gray =14 players Singletary could be a future piece. Chance for a productive yet low cost third option beyond next season. Ewing the same. Trading for Luther could be sent as a message to Gordon's camp to come back down to reality. Alston, Brooks, Thabo McGrady, Barry, Francis Artest, Battier, Harris Scola, Landry, Dorsey Yao, Hayes, Deke =15 players
why do people assume he will get 14 mil a year? Hey I would like 14 mil a year but it aint gonna happen... No one will give this guy more than 10 mil and thats being nice. He will have to take 6 years for 50 mill at most.
lets see what europe has to say about that, they gave childress like twice what he's worth and Gordon could be an all star if he wanted to
no euro team will give ben fricking gordon more than 10 mill per season.. We are talking about ben gordon.
Ya know why don't we just get on with the Carl Landry bs and go for some of the free agents out there. ( I almost never say I hate anyone but this buddy baker a#$hole or whatever his name is, is aggravating the sh%^ out a me) Anyway once that is all said and done I say we go after Shaun Livingston and Lorenzen Wright. We need a back up point gaurd on the cheap and I'm pretty sure after his injury he'll be as cheap as they come. And Wright could add more size and play behind Mutumbo when we re-sign him as or 3rd or 4th string center. We are really tied up right now with Carl's situation. But I'm not worried, I have faith in these Rockets. WE BELIEVE!!!
And one more thing I've been thinking about.... I think one of the biggest reasons everyone is saying Shane's so good, and Shane's our glue, and what would we ever do without Shane, is because so far the past 4 or 5 champions have had a defensive stopper to play D and help the team. My belief is that if he's such a fantastic player then why didn't we offer him to the Blazers when we wanted Brandon Roy and they accept. Even now Portland obviously likes Battier then why don't we ask for Roy. Maybe cause they knew whats up and us as dumb as we are accept and embraced one of the dumbest trades this franchise has ever seen. I'm just saying that if Shane was all this and that then why can't we ever get out of the first round. I'm not saying that we have to trade him for Ben. I just think that if we do trade him we can get some good young talent from someone and screw them like memphis did to us. I like Shane and all but I just can't put him as high as some of the other people in this forum. He's a great role player but when we got him it was to gain another guy to help Yao and Tracy, or so I thought, and now he's become our biggest and greatest role player. I know that defense wins champions but dang can it get a brotha outta the first round!
I agree with you for the most part, but I wouldn't want to trade for Gordon. We don't need guys who can only score and do nothing else, we need guys that can distribute the ball, play defense, shoot a high percentage. If we are trading Battier for someone, I would much rather deal him for someone like Hinrich. Hinrich's contract, while still a little ugly, is much less uglier than Gordon's contract. And at least his contract is front loaded so when all is said and done he'll be making 8-9 million in a few years. He can penetrate, play defense, shoot a decent percentage from behind the arc. The problem tho is, while Battier is a good player, his value is actually lower. He's getting older, his slightly overpaid, he's not expiring. So the only way we can make a deal with him is if its like a Mo Williams situation where they want to get rid of the guy, or if a team is loaded at a position but not at others (like Chicago), or to a team like Portland who's up and coming, has the proven young talent but just needs a role player that can provide the vet leadership. But honestly, if we keep Battier I'm not going to be disappointed, he can still get enough playing time this season and he's injury insurance for 3 to 4 positions really. I'd rather let a trade come to us rather than vice versa.
If we need to trade Shane Battier I would wait till next season just in case Ron doesnt stay. If it were up to me I would probably never trade Shane Battier away unless we got Kobe or Tim Duncan or someone of that caliber and I dont think that is realistic so I would never trade Shane away.
I like Sef too, but watching him last year he definitely doesn't have the foot speed to keep up with PGs and doesn't seem to have much range. Basically he's just a guy with long arms and above average ball handling skills for a guy his size, didn't strike me as a particularly good passer either.
I sort of agree. But if we got a role player with that could fill one of our other needs (PG or C), I wouldn't mind. Like I mentioned in my last post, grabbing Hinrich from the Bulls would be a solid move. He's basically a slightly better Rafer Alston. He's not as good a spot up shooter as Battier is if you go by this seasons numbers, but he's had seasons shooting 40% from the arc. He's a slightly better scorer. He can play defense, not as good as Battier, but better than Rafer. And since he can play both 1 and 2 effectively our lineup would be much more efficient. It might look something like this: PG: Alston 30/ Hinrich 18 SG: Tmac 24/ Hinrich 12/ Barry 12 SF: Artest 36/ Tmac 12 PF: Scola 24/ Landry 24 C: Yao 36/ Scola 6/ Landry 6 Minutes by player: 36: Tmac, Yao, Artest 30: Alston, Hinrich, Scola, Landry 12: Barry Obviously those aren't exact numbers because you have guys like Head, Brooks and Hayes getting random minutes but you get the picture. Exchange Battier for Head and the 3 becomes much more cramped. It looks something like this (assuming Battier comes off the bench). Alston 32/ Barry 16 Tmac 36/ Battier 12 Artest 28/ Battier 20 Scola 20/ Landry 20/ Artest 8 Yao 36/ Landry 6/ Scola 6 Minutes by player 36: Tmac, Yao, Artest 32: Battier, Alston 30: Landry, Scola 16: Barry This scenerio, while not exactly bad... forces you to play Barry exclusively at PG with your insurance being Brooks (compared to playing Hinrich at PG with the insurance being Barry), and forces you to play Battier slightly out of position at the 2 for a couple of minutes a game. You are weaker at the PG position but slightly stronger at the SG with Battier being the main back up over Hinrich and Barry. Again, not bad, but I think the first option would be slightly better.
Yes. Thats a different story though. Wallace isn't trying to get a 14 million dollar a year deal. He's as young, he's athletic, can play defense much better than Gordon (not as good as Battier). We would still be stacked at SF but I would rather have Wallace coming off the bench than Battier.
Amen. Hinrich is the guy I want most. He should be rejuvenated in Adelman's system. Noah is the only other player that would interest me from the Bulls. PG & backup 4/5 are the missing pieces to a championship. Only dilemma I see is why would the Bulls want Shane Battier? As good as Shane is, he would be fighting for minutes w/some of the Bulls most productive players_Deng & Noccioni. Makes no sense. If anything, Bulls might be interested in Landry (cheap low post offense), or Skip (a vet PG) since Hinrich and Gordon are always mentioned in trade rumors. Another player that the Bulls would covet is McGrady, but I don't see it happening. Even if they threw in Deng AND Noah.
The Bulls would want Shane Battier because his salary is more stable than Hinrich. I believe Hinrich is making around 10 this year while Battier is making like 7. Plus, Battier is the sure thing while Hinrich has had really only one good year percentages wise (check out his FG% and 3P% and he's basically Rafer except for that one year they made it to the second round). Battier would basically replace Nocioni, who is having injury issues as it is (although Nocioni can play 4 while Battier can't). They get rid of their log jam in the frontcourt (Rose, Gordon, Hughes, Hinrich, Thabo... all of which could probably start on a bunch of teams). PLUS, Battiers contract ends a season or two earlier I think. So if the Rose, Noah, Tyrus rookie experiment fails they will be under the cap quicker, and if it doesn't they have a vet that will be a solid backup for years (Battiers skill set doesn't exactly go away with age). On our end I'm a little worried about shelling out an extra 3 million compared to Battier. That means that if Hinrich starts, and we resign Artest for about 10 mil, we would be spending a good 60 million on just starters. If trading for Hinrich doesn't change our willingness to sign Artest to a new contract though, I'd be all for it. It gives you a great defensive player at PG and at SF. Considering how good the PGs are in the west, that would be nice come playoff time. I have a feeling Morey would be less likely to sign Artest back though for the reason I stated.
I'd like to see what this group can do. If we get to the WCF and our weakness at PG is exploited or something along those lines I would consider Heinrich for Battier, assuming Artest resigned. Other than that, I wouldnt move any of our core at this point.
You kind of have a point. Although IMO if you have an opportunity to trade a bench player for a starter you should... but again, salary might be an issue. And I don't think this trade would actually hinge on Artest wanting to resign with us. If Artest weren't here I think we might still do this trade strictly because its an offense for defense type of move. You slightly downgrade the defense (Hinrich is actually a pretty solid defender, just not Battier) and slightly upgrade the offense, and if you get the Hinrich from two years ago you REALLY upgrade the offense. Actually, one way I was thinking of doing this was if the Artest project doesn't pan out (does something stupid, has a feud with Tmac.. w/e), we could probably use Artest as an expiring and nab Hinrich. We might have to throw in a pick, it shouldn't take too much though because he's coming off the bench over there and he already has a bad contract.
