I agree. Our team specifically has more of a need for role players like Battier who won't take shots away from the offense, but will make shots when open. Battier's true shooting percentage is higher than Gordon's because Gordon is a volume scorer. You trade for Gordon and Gordon would basically have Battier's old role of being the spot up shooter. No way he will have plays run for him when you already have Yao, Tmac AND Artest. So I would rather have the guy that makes shots at a higher clip (admittedly not that much higher, but still higher), but brings defense and leadership and comes at a much better price.
What?!?! Battier is considered one of the top 5 over-hyped players by Fox Sports of all places and now some of you want to dump him for a player who only brings offense and should have made the list instead of Battier. Wow!! Mark my words, if we lose Battier, you will see a huge difference in this team. Battier gets things done, you may not see it when you go check the box scores, but watch the game and see who comes up with that loose ball, the rebound we had to have, or the steal at the best moment. I understand Artest is capable of these things too, but it is downright scary to think of the possibility of 2 defenders of that caliber on the floor at the same time for some stretches. SAY NO TO A BATTIER TRADE. WE WILL NEED HIM IF WE HOPE TO COMPETE FOR THE CHAMPIONSHIP. that's the goal right?
Gordon will have Head's role. Gordon is a better backup PG than Head and Brooks. Alston can have a good amount of breather. Gordon also can create for his own shots. He does not need TMAC to be effective thus he is a good back up for TMAC too. TMAC can sit on the bench longer time while watching Gordon being as clutch as him. Gordon is miles better than Head. Battier's limited offense heavily depends on TMAC and Yao. I doubt he can do anything on offensive end. in the end, the trade is to choose between who is the backup that Rockets needed most: Battier (defensive minded SF or SG) or Gordon (SG and PG, instant offense, clutch, can create his shots). If Rockets could not get a ring by adding Gordon, they wont win a ring with Head and Battier as backups either. If Artest leaves, Rockets will still have their 3rd scorer in Gordon or will go back to their 1st-round-exit mode with Battier.
First of all Battier is due to make about 6.3 million this year not 8 million. Gordon turned down 10 million a year last year and wants well more then that this year. Im sure he thinks he deserves Deng or Iguodala money. Secondly, how do you not think Gordon isnt also a role player. He is a sixth man who can score and nothing else. No defense, poor passer, not a great ball handler. Plain and simple he has one role. He shoots a lot. The Rox no longer need that because they now have three legit scorers who can go for over 30 on any given night. The absolute last thing you want on your team is a fourth option who thinks he should make 12 million a year that adds little to the team other then scoring. Say what you want about him being clutch, but he couldnt lead a fairly talented Bulls team to the playoffs in a horrible Eastern conference.
Yea man i totally agreed. This ROX team is capable of scoring at will with Yao and Tmac...so all we need is to shut people down and prevent them from scoring therefore making the lead much wider. Battier fits the bill and he and Artest is going to form a 1-2 punch shutting people down. Not to mention we also have Scola (Battier's charging brother) and Hayes and Dorsey to provide some toughness inside. I am satisfy with Battier because dude can shoot from outside and that is exactly all you need playing w/ Yao and Tmac.
Ben Gordon shoots 40+% from 3 every year(on a lot of attempts) and 90+ from the free throw line. Please tell me how that constitutes "chucker" for a guy who puts up 20+ points.
I cannot believe this kind of fantasy is still alive after so many years 1st round exit and offensive droughts with exactly Yao and TMAC.
How a sixth man become a 4th option? the game is usually won by that little scoring. we got enough talents on defensive end. What will Battier bring as a sixth man? who is going to backup TMAC and Rafer? Head again?
I don't like the idea. I will also love to see that Rockets Defense. We were like the 2nd or 3rd on opponents points allowed. I will love to see Ron Artest to be sixth men. But what I even more love that Coach Aldeman is a master of combining players to do the necceserly to win. He have options.
For 10 times more the cost, gordon better be better than head. Paying 10+m for non starter? Nah, not even ginobili got that much.
Battier for Gordon? One guy is a consummate professional who you know what you're going to get out of him game-in and game-out...and that is lock down team and individual defending and a sweet three-point stroke when open in the corner. And he comes reasonably priced at $5.8M. The other is a streaky scorer who is undersized for the 2 and not composed enough to play the 1 (see: career 1-1 assist-turnover ratio). And he is gonna demand a multi-year contract for at least $8M per season. NO THANKS. If anything, I would consider a trade for Hinrich (see: career 6.4 APG). We don't need scoring anyways...but we do need a reliable point guard, especially with Rafer out boozing while driving his Aston Martin. Ideally, the Yao, TMac, Ron Ron, Scola, Battier combination will work as-is with Rafer playing his role at the 1. Let's hope that's not just wishful thinking. Check out www.rocketsonly.com for more Rockets analysis...
This discussion just reminded me of this thread: http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=141252&highlight=offenser According to this guy, Gordon would be an "offenser" and Battier would be a "defender". Not sure what his formula would conclude about this proposed trade given the addition of Artest and the rest of the roster. Edit: After reading his post, I guess he would say that Gordon is more valuable than Battier unless you consider Gordon one-dimensional offensively. I see Gordon as a guy that can shoot, create his own shot, penetrate and finish, etc... so he would be an "offenser" in my view.
And thats exactly why we don't need Gordon. We traded for a guy who SHOULD put up 20 points a game. We don't NEED another guy. Sure, another guy wouldn't hurt, but thats when you take into consideration the salary he wants. He's going to want at least 10 million (he wanted to be paid 14 because thats how much Deng is getting), he's basically going to be the backup to Tmac. I don't know about you, but I would rather spend 8 million on Battier... a guy who won't take shots away from the stars but basically provide everything else, than spend 14 million on Gordon. A guy who is going to want the ball, and can't do anything else. Yes, he's coming off the bench so it shouldn't be a big deal, but you don't want to pay 14 million for a bench player. And in the playoffs, that extra defensive stopper could come in handy. Plus, he's as good a 3 point shooter as some of these other guys on other teams, so you could bring him in for that also.
The salary part is a valid point. basically, we could never get Ben Gordon by Battier. Les will never pay any bench player that much. But Ben Gordon is a much valuable bench player than Battier for the Rockets. Gordon is going to be a backup for both TMAC and RAFER, like Head was. A backup PG who can create, shoot and clutch is definitely what this team need most. I can not imagine what Battier can do from the bench other than giving a little bit break for TMAC and Artest. He might not even get open to shoot his 3s without TMAC's hard work. In the playoffs, we needed offense more than defense in every 1st round exit. That's what I saw.
All I am getting from your long post, is $12MM, expensive, $12MM, can't afford, $12MM. If your point is we cannot afford Ben Gordon, fair enough. I don't disagree. But don't say that Battier is better than him. Like Morey said, when you pick someone you pick the best player, not who you think fits better. Obviously, Battier have not helped us get past the playoffs and in fact disappears. Defensive role players like Battier, Bruce Bowen, Ryan Bowen, Ben Wallace should NEVER be traded for a lottery pick much less be one.
I would pick Monta Ellis. I would not trade for Gordon, but I would give Shane and more for Mike Miller.
I like ben gordon. He is a phenomenol player. However, i will choose Battier over Gordon. We are renown for our solid defense and thats because we have top quality defenders in Battier, Hayes and Mutombo. Trading away Battier will be a huge blow to our defense. Offensively, i think Yao, T-Mac and Artest will provide us with majority of the scoring. Also we got periphery players like Brent Barry, Scola and Alston who are potent scorers. Thus, i don't think we need ben gordon. He'll be a nice addition coming off the bench, but i won't acquire him at the expense of battier. In a highly competitive western conference, defense is the key to success. Hence, i think we should keep battier and have him and artest alternatively guard the opposition's best player.
"the opposition's best player" wont play 48 minutes. Battier is going to guard their scrub most of the time coming from the bench. "In a highly competitive western conference, defense is the key to success." no, not for Rockets. The best defense gave Rockets' first round exits many times. In fact, Rockets always fell short on offense.
Problem with that logic is that some teams have multiple players that can score, maybe not at Kobe Bryant level, but Lamar Odom is dangerous as well. Battier's defense will not be wasted on scrubs. But the solution to that is Artest. Adding a guy like Artest should give us the offense we need. I'd be fine with Gordon if it wasn't for the fact that he's asking for 14 million. You just don't pay 14 million dollars a year for a backup.
