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Would you trade ANYONE to accelerate growth?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by DaDakota, Nov 20, 2022.

  1. Dobbizzle

    Dobbizzle Member

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    You're deluding yourself here. Look at his stats, those are starter stats in the NBA, just not star player stats. And it's his second year.
     
  2. Hemingway

    Hemingway Member
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    Suggs? Ivey? Lol
     
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  3. Hemingway

    Hemingway Member
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    Sengun doesn’t look terrible at shooting 3’s. He will be fine on defense once our real lineup of KPJ, Green, Tari, Bari, and Sengun are inserted. Only thing that needs to change is Gordon to the bench. Gordon no longer plays defense.
     
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  4. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

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    You have to put the long wing span mobile guys around Sengun.

    Frank from The Chop Shop podcast made a good point last week....
    if we recall, the Nuggets took Jokic out in the fourth quarters
    in the playoffs series last year.

    Jokic was the MVP.

    Playoffs are a different beast.....teams go with Hampton Lineups.

    They run the Jokic, Embiid, KAT's off the court.

    At the moment, Sengun is no Jokic
     
    tycoonchip likes this.
  5. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Roster is unbalanced but you don't need to balance it today or even tomorrow, especially not at the expense of talent when you have a top 5 pick incoming.

    Plus it's still too early to say what kind of pg KPJ can be.
     
    Corrosion likes this.
  6. DaDakota

    DaDakota KPJ Warrior - He deserves our support
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    Why not? If you balance it now, you help the future development quite a bit - unbalanced is a lot like treading water, or pushing things back.

    Top 5 pick huh, and still no Superstar player....

    Agree about KPJ - but he clearly thrives in a more scoring oriented role.

    DD
     
  7. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member

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    IMO it is for the best to trade away Sengun, KPJ, Green, and Smith to accelerate the growth of the team. That's how it works, right?
     
  8. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    You can't say it's hurting development - see my above post.
     
  9. DaDakota

    DaDakota KPJ Warrior - He deserves our support
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    You and I do not agree on that, our development is r****ded by a lack of system and our inability to move past Eric Gordon.

    DD
     
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  10. King1

    King1 Contributing Member

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    I think Wemby and Scoot both have the potential to be superstars. Wembanyama obviously depends on health and Scoot's J has to improve. It sucks we don't have a PG. Think Green, Garumba, Sengun and Smith (as he works through his growing pains) need to be out there. If KPJ can play the 3 let's see if not move him to 6th. Give KJ more time. See what we have in TyTy. Get rid of Nix, Gordon Mathews and Tate. It's really not hard we just have an awful head coach
     
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  11. King1

    King1 Contributing Member

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    Spot on. We lack any sort of an offense and it's hindering player development
     
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  12. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    I agree on the 2nd but not the first. That's just your theory - there's no evidence that their development has been held back because of having the wrong system. Right now, it doesn't seem these guys would be good at executing any system.

    Some might think a read and react offense is too hard for so many young guys to learn and better to have a set system, but the Rockets wanted a dynamic offense and that's what Silas is putting in. It's going to look ugly because the players are really young and inexperienced. They are developing though.
     
  13. subtomic

    subtomic Contributing Member
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    Nobody on this team has proven themselves as a current or future franchise player. In fact, I feel this is part of the problem - coaches and management are treating Green like a franchise player when he hasn't come close to rising to that level. As a result, some of the more optimal ways the team could be playing (cough...using Alpi as a high or low post focal point with everyone else cutting or spotting up) is not being utilized in favor of treating Green,KPJ and EG as top-notch perimeter creators. However, the reality is that neither Green nor KPJ are even passable creators on a winning team (EG isn't a creator at all in any offensive scheme), and trying to make them play like Harden or Luka is destined to fail.

    Don't get me wrong - I think Green has great potential as a Vinnie Johnson/Lou Williams microwave type offense player and that is incredibly valuable. But his lack of size and strength means he'll always struggle to finish through contact, his mediocre handles mean he won't always be able to create an easy shot for himself and his lack of court vision means he'll struggle to make easy shots for others. Perhaps the court vision and handles will improve enough that he can be the focus of an offense, but I don't think that is an easy leap for him to make. And if he suffers any kind of injury that slows him down a bit (not a hard thing to imagine given his build), I'm not sure if his other skills will be able to prop him up enough to remain a legit NBA starter.

    Similarly, though he's our best option now for running a coherent offense, I don't think Sengun has the length, explosiveness or shooting to be a long-term solution as a franchise player. He's always going to struggle on defense, and I suspect as players become more familiar with his craftiness, he'll have to work a whole lot harder to get the easy looks he currently generates for himself.

    As of today, Jabari shows absolutely no evidence of being a franchise player. His best skill (shooting) has been poor and his defense is hampered by his lack of strength. I think he is more likely to be a super role player if he gets his shooting back and becomes a top notch perimeter defender.

    Everybody else is clearly a solid starter or role player at best.

    So with all this in mind, if a deal materialized where we could trade 2 of these guys for a young franchise talent (similar to the Rockets trading Francis, Mobley and Cato for McGrady or Martin and Lamb plus picks for Harden), I think it has to be strongly considered. I'm not suggesting the front office aggressively look for something like that, and I think all of these players will get better over time to where perhaps we can lure a true franchise player to sign with us over the summer. But we shouldn't get precious over potential either - this team missed out on some great trades because we held on to potential instead (keeping Roderick Rhodes instead of getting D Stoudamire, keeping Eddie Griffin instead of getting Rashard Lewis, and I even seem to remember the Suns offered us Shawn Marion for Cato after Marion's rookie year).
     
  14. monster

    monster Member

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    We don’t even know what we have yet. It’s premature to trade anyone outside of Gordon or fillers like Mathew. One more year of lottery and burn for our youngsters and I think we’ll have a much better handle in what trades we need to consider.

    If nothing else, I’d agree to bring in a journeyman PG who can give stability and direct the others.
     
  15. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    First off to show how difficult it is for 20 year olds in the league:
    https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-points-per-game-average-by-a-20-year-old-in-the-nba#:~:text=LeBron James has averaged the,player, with 29.3 per game.

    If Green stagnates and shows zero more growth in his game as a 20 year old, he is peak 30 year old Lou Williams with 11 years of NBA training and experience who had roughly the same output and efficiency. And you can't just say that's due to era as that was Lou in the modern era.

    Now that is highly unlikely for a 20 year old. 19-23 is the most rapid era of NBA player development so Green will probably look like a completely different player in 2 seasons which is roughly where KPJ is now.

    Anyways you are probably comparing his handles to smaller guys like AI or Kyrie. But compared to players like Lavine and Beal at 20 his handles are definitely superior. 20 year old Lavine for example wasn't manipulating screens on a live dribble like this:

    (scrub to 5:54)


    Green is far more advanced than Lavine at age 20. So if he has just regular NBA development progression in the next few years, I expect more than all-star. He can stagnate. That is definitely a possibility as it has happened before and in this environment it increases the chance of it happening but I still see it as less than 50% chance of that happening.

    At his current rate of progression he seems to be following Devin Booker's trajectory the most out of any current star player. And Booker is a far better player than a 6than microwave oven.
     
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  16. DaDakota

    DaDakota KPJ Warrior - He deserves our support
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    There is if you watch the games and are being honest about it.

    DD
     
  17. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    You still haven't shared what evidence you have or anything about the games you are basing your decision.

    It can't just be - so and so isn't getting the ball enough.
     
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  18. kjayp

    kjayp Contributing Member

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    Obviously Silas has to go... mid season or end of season - whatever....

    Then I'm looking for a starting center and starting pg...

    ????/Sengun/Bruno
    Bari/KMJ/Garuba
    Tari/Tate
    JG/JC
    ???/Kpj/Tyty

    If I can get anything for Ego - do it now....

    Obviously dream scenario is Wemby... but if not, hopefully we get Scoot.... depending on where our pick falls, may add some assets to move up...

    and then overpay for the other piece... capspace shouldnt be a concern...

    ow with whatever assets or space we got left... upgrade where u can based on whats available...
     
  19. juanm34

    juanm34 Member

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    Stone should have traded Sil@ss and EG months ago!
     
  20. DaDakota

    DaDakota KPJ Warrior - He deserves our support
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    Watch the games watch the lack of body movement, watch the ball getting sticky and us Iso ISO ISO all over the place. Watch us beat our guy and have 4 men standing around guarded.

    It is perhaps the worst motion/read and react offense i have ever seen.

    DD
     

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