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Would you trade ANYONE to accelerate growth?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by DaDakota, Nov 20, 2022.

  1. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

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    Yes, the Warriors have counters to the counters.

    Silas came out of preseason saying he would be adding layers (counters in his read and react offense) unfortunately the players don't wear helmets with mic receivers like in the NFL.*

    Our players don't take the initiative.

    *QB head mic is turned off as play transpires
     
  2. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    No no, just tossing out some examples of young -ish PGs that we might be able to balance the roster.

    What if you got Ivey and a FRP? Don't think like for like, think, would it help accelerate the team's growth?

    And, I am not in favor of trading Green, or anyone, but as we suck, I would make everyone available for the right price.

    DD
     
  3. astrosrule

    astrosrule Member

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    Not so far no, he has been really bad
     
  4. Rockets4Life13

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    Yea I'm sure the 12 points Harden averaged off the bench for OKC in his 2nd year made him a borderline allstar and "very good starter at worst".

    Oh and Kobe's 15ppg on 41.8% FG were also allstar production.

    JG with 21 on 41.2%FG isn't at that level.

    You should work on your mythbusting facts.
    I think JG isn't as good as he can be yet but what you said is factually not true and doesn't make much sense in direct comparison.
     
  5. DatRocketFan

    DatRocketFan Member

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    anyone suggesting we trade green over kpj ain't a rocket fan but a kpj only fan in disguise.
     
  6. astrosrule

    astrosrule Member

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    Try to look past FG% and ppg, look at the more relevant stats like TS% and impact metrics. It’s more useful
     
  7. Rockets4Life13

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    JG averages about 3x the amount of 3s than Kobe so without even looking it up, his TS% is atleast even to that of Kobe in year 2 which is exactly why I didn't bring it up. It only strengthens my point.

    Impact metrics don't make sense if someone like Harden was at that point on one of the best teams while the Rockets struggle to make it past 10 wins.
     
  8. Williamson

    Williamson JOSH CHRISTOPHER ONLY FAN
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    [​IMG]
     
  9. Jontro

    Jontro Member

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    ill trade everyone except silas and christopher
     
    Williamson likes this.
  10. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    I don't agree that guys aren't developing or developing fast enough.
     
    No Worries and HP3 like this.
  11. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    While I understand your impatience @DaDakota , the worst thing you can do with a young team that's trying to find an identity is disrupt their chemistry and growth.

    You think they need a vet pg to accelerate growth, but that's built on a presumption - the presumption that the development currently is being hindered in some way. The fact is, you don't know that. So you're suggesting making seismic changes that could actually have the opposite effect than desired -
    setting the rebuild back, not forward.

    I get the temptation of bringing in a pg by trading away some of our assets so that guys like Jabari can get more touches. But that's as short sighted as you saying Garuba has no place on this team and should be cut cause he's just going to be taking minutes away from players who could develop. If the Rockets had done that, it would have been a horrible mistake that would have cost them dearly.

    Making rush moves is not what the Rockets need. They need to sit tight and be patient across the board. Jabari will get touches - that's part of KPJ's and other players development to do so. It's also part of the development of Jabari to push him to do stuff off ball now that he's not the center of the team - he's not the number one guy anymore like he was in college. Look at Tari Eason. Jabari can do the same - learn to contribute even when the ball isn't getting to you for whatever reasons. You want to develop a player - you don't just spoon feed him at his favorite spots so he can put up big vanity numbers on a really bad team and win ROY. That's not development. That's make fans like yourself happy. Development happens more through challenge and adversity than doing what players are comfortable with.

    Development isn't just getting your touches and getting minutes. It's so much more than that. So yeah, you're totally wrong on this. The Rockets should not look to add any other players to this mix for the rest of this season - they should in fact just be looking to get draft picks for Gordon and potentially Tate.
     
  12. Swapshop

    Swapshop Member

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    Didn't bother reading this but it sounds like firing Silas is the answer.
     
    juanm34 and Os Trigonum like this.
  13. Corrosion

    Corrosion Member

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    I'm not really worried about Green just yet .... He's making a lot of progress.

    We also have to remember that when he came into the league, he wasn't a very good "basketball player" he was a great athlete ..... he's always been the best athlete and relied upon his athleticism to get by.

    It's only now that he's in the NBA that he's having to learn the intricacies of the game .... Just look at last season where he couldn't run a simple pick and roll and now, he's making the right decisions more often than not.
    Last season he was also one of the worst defenders in the league at his position, this year he's at least competent.
    His shooting, both from distance and at the rim was underwhelming early on last season, but it improved as the year went on .....

    He's improving and doing so pretty quickly, he just had so much to learn that it's going to take a while to become a polished basketball player - I'm not going to use the term finished product because these guys continue to evolve year after year, adding new wrinkles to their game ....
     
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  14. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    We are legit like 100 games into our rebuild.

    The first year was just a dead year all together.
    We have had 100 games of Green and Sengun, and 15 of Tari and Bari.
    Our next major piece isn't even here yet.

    Shouldn't even be considering trading for fit until end of next year when you actually know what you have.
     
    Sweet Lou 4 2 and peleincubus like this.
  15. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    My point is our roster is unbalanced, we need to shed some pieces and add some.

    If you consider Green to be like a 93 as a SG, KPJ is probably the same score.......as a player.

    What we need though is a floor general and if you are getting the same production out of both KPJ and JG, then one should be traded, and you trade the one that can bring in the biggest return.

    DD
     
  16. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

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    You are only looking at it from the offensive perspective. There are two sides
    to every coin.

    If you want Allen Iverson and surround him with defenders.....
    you might win a championship.

    Or

    You can have a switch everything defensively, everyone shoot 3's and
    have a well balanced team on both sides. And win a championship.

    I've shown how post ups have decreased each year in some of the best post
    up players in the game such as Embiid, KAT, Jokic. Little by little it's being
    diminished.

    Why? Well the play type was being kicked out because near zone
    like defenses are able to collapse on the post up players while also being in
    striking distance of their own assignments.

    But recently, switch everything defenses gave encouragement that you can
    force a switch of your big on a smaller point guard. Teams are learning
    to go more with bigger combo guards at point.......and switching in
    space in order to keep their big close to the rim.

    Another factor is teams use to be scared of the bigs that shoot 3's like Embiid, KAT, or
    Jokic......now they learned that their 3-pt attempts are so miniscule......that 40% from
    3 on less than 3 attempts per game doesn't scare them. They have time to switch in space.

    The Jazz gave up on Gobert, whom didn't want to contest 3's on the perimeter and
    added mobility and length of Olynyk, L Markkanaen Jared Vanderbilt, Walker Kessler.

    I like what they did.......long, lengthy, mobile bigs with two facilitators in Conley/Clarkson.
    Markkanaen and Olynyk space the floor as shooters. It's amazing how spacing
    makes most teams efficient on offense.

    We haven't seen what Silas can do yet. If we had Vanderbilt or Siakim
    or Bruno or Dwight Powell to go along with Jabari and Tari.
    We may be high octane Pace and Space that wins championships
    nowadays.

    But you like an All Star. An MVP. I don't know about others
    but Harden winning the MVP didn't feel like the city of Houston
    won a championship to me. I was happy for Harden.....but I don't care
    about individual trophies. Don't care if Ben Simmons wins DPOY
    or Bradley Beal wins the scoring title. I only look for championships.

    And if Silas is not the guy.....send me another Pace and Space coach
    that will win me that. You want to salivate over Sengun post ups.
    Go get Dwight Howards coach from Orlando, Atlanta, Charlotte
    Steve Clifford. And good luck. Guys that can't shoot 3's are going to
    be weeded out of the league with more and more players
    that can shoot 3's. M Thybulle has gone from 25 minutes last
    year to 11 minutes. Smart defenses are exploiting teams weaknesses.
    Finding the non shooters and packing the paint accordingly.
    Get with the program or get left behind.

    Here you see modern defenses getting smarter.
     
    #76 ApacheWarrior, Nov 22, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2022
  17. tycoonchip

    tycoonchip Member
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    I would even put kenyon martin jr on the lists of assets.

    At this point we're building around KPJ, Green, Bari, Tari. Everyone else is just an asset. They can all be easily replaced. I LOVE Sengun and I hate to say this but the dude needs the ball in his hands to be effective and is most efficient while posting up. 12 years ago, it would have been fine. In todays game not so much.
     
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  18. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

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    Yes, when you watch that video it's hard to imagine Sengun switching in space.

    And on the reverse, how defenses are treating the post up players.

    Not that Sengun can't learn to hit the 3.....i expected him to be at 33%
    coming into this season,. He obviously worked on post game in the
    off-season.

    With Sengun we are mostly doing drop coverage. It's hard to picture our
    team doing the advanced stuff like the Triple Switch you see in the video.


    Also note how LSU ranked high nationally and hat Tari was a part
    of that team.

    Another note I have: Jokic and Denver have always had an advantage
    playing n that high elevation. They win most of their home games
    every season. Houston doesn't have such an advantage.
     
  19. Le$$

    Le$$ Member

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    They need to sign Allstar, or trade for somebody fast to get these kids up to speed. They need 2 vets who can play (up to speed) badly as in good, and to at least have a go to vet on the team. I dont know who this is but they need some sort of high volume/ Defensive minded vet scorer(Ariza like) and vet who has some defensive presence around the league, and hell even some bench vets who can get them going. I assume they are tanking for another draft pick, so i guess you will not see any major moves until this summer.

    Maybe bump this thread after the draft? @DaDakota
     
  20. Le$$

    Le$$ Member

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    I think you would be crazy to trade Sengun. But i think KPJ Package for him is more suitable.
     
    #80 Le$$, Nov 23, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2022
    peleincubus likes this.

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