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Would you trade ANYONE to accelerate growth?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by DaDakota, Nov 20, 2022.

  1. DaDakota

    DaDakota KPJ Warrior - He deserves our support
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    If you are Raphael Stone, put your asset hat on boys and girls and put away your fandom and let's take a look at our roster and what can be done to balance. No player is safe....NONE - if it can make the overall core better and the team's road to contention shorter.

    This may not be a popular post as we are going to look at trading away good pieces, if we can possibly get better in return, if you feel like joining into this exercise, come on in and drop a line.

    So, in looking at the roster, we don't have a quality starting PG, we have a ton of SGs, a few SFs, Guys that can be either PFs or Center and really no center (outside of a cheerleader in Boban)

    So, usually you identify the core pieces you want to keep and everyone else is expendable - try to keep those, unless you have similar pieces on the roster.

    For this exercise I assume the core pieces are:

    Green
    Jabari

    That is it, for right now, and Jabari is teetering on it just being Green.

    We obviously need a PG and a Center the most - so how do we go about getting one? Clearly through draft or trade, we probably ought to look at whether we can solve our problems.

    Some people have mentioned we should try to get a Mike Conley or Derick Rose type as a mentor PG, but we just had Wall and we see how they didn't really work, it won't work for Conley or Rose either as late in their careers they are gonna wanna chase a ring, not put diapers on 20-22 year old players.

    So, how do you go about getting a PG that can be the guy and have it be about the same age as our team.

    1. You can try to find one that folks think is a bust and hope he works out here - We tried that with Exum, a bust is generally a bust.
    2. You can find one in the Gleague that you think has more value than others do - Look at Nix - but yeah, there is probably a reason he went undrafted and that is pretty much what everyone sees in him now.
    3. You can go to Europe and bring in a player like Vasilije Micic - if you can pry him away from OKC - sure why not, he just wants to prove himself in the NBA wants a reasonable 7ish million contract and playing time guaranteed, we can do that.....
    4. You can look at trading some of your assets for a PG - would anyone look at KPJ (Not going to get equal value) at this point, we could trade EGo but would need to attach many additional assets to get someone like Jayden Ivey, or Suggs for instance - but I doubt they do that.
    5. What if we traded Green - well now....do you think that we could get Jayden Ivey for Green? That makes KPJ our starting SG, Ivey our point and it balances our team. Would be a bold move - but pretty risky.
    6. We let KPJ and Green figure it out over time and hope they become McCullough and Dame - probably the course of action to be honest.

    Center/PF - We have Sengun, Fernando, Garuba, Jabari and Fernando as viable centers/PFs - all have their faults, and strengths - if we could pick off a good other center - that would be great, we could really use a taller more athletic starting Center but I wouldn't break the bank for one as we do have options on our current team that might yet develop into a solid starting center.

    SF - Well we have Eason, KMJ, Garuba - and we can slide Green or KPJ into that spot if we can get someone to play the point.

    So, really, to me if we all agree we need a PG, we might want to look at trading ANYONE if it can get us one.

    Option A would be to try to pry Micic from Europe - as we would need to give up some pieces, maybe Christopher and perhaps a pick but why the hell not?
    Option B would be to trade KPJ - his contract is valuable but not sure others in the league value him as much as us.
    Option C take a big swing and see if we can get one of the dynamic young PGs in the league by trading Green. (How many would even dare to consider this?) You know Morey would.


    Yep, I know off my rocker - but I really would like to see us get some roster balance, and sooner rather than later.

    Yes, I am not mentioning Ty Ty, he might be the answer we seek which gives us Option D - patience....

    What say you good fine merry men and women of Clutchfans....what say you?

    DD
     
    Rolliepollie and peleincubus like this.
  2. Hank McDowell

    Hank McDowell Member

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    I’m very reluctant to part with any of the young guys right now because I kind of like how they are growing together, but they could really REALLY use a steadying influence at the point. I’d like to see them swap Gordon for a comparable player who is an actual PG and reevaluate things at the end of the season. This team isn’t ready to win yet anyway.
     
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  3. DaDakota

    DaDakota KPJ Warrior - He deserves our support
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    I am not sure there is one out there we could get for Gordon - even one that can backup would be helpful.....maybe if you attached some future picks to it, or Josh Christopher and Tate etc.....

    Is there a disgruntled PG out there that we could nab? Anyone on a team that was supposed to be good and is bad? What about Rondo could we get him out of retirement to teach?

    DD
     
  4. MadMax94$

    MadMax94$ Member

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    If Rockets want an adequate veteran back up point guard they should pick up the phone and call D.J. Augustin. I'm sure he isn't doing anything right now.
     
    joshuaao, Easy, Futron and 1 other person like this.
  5. napalm06

    napalm06 John Lucas University™
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    Sign Sergio Llull obviously
     
  6. Hank McDowell

    Hank McDowell Member

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    That’s the obvious choice, and he’s available. The 8 second violation just about killed me tonight. It’s exactly the kind of thing they can’t do, and a pretty good example of the kind of crap that happens when you constantly run an offense without an actual point guard. That was on Green, but KPJ has nobody to mentor him. I mean, John Lucas is great, but I think he’d really benefit from working with an actual living and breathing current PG too. As far as roster balance goes, I’d happily lose a veteran SG or two for a true PG.
     
    #6 Hank McDowell, Nov 20, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2022
    Futron, Corrosion and DaDakota like this.
  7. raining threes

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    I wonder if a Gordon trade to the Suns/Heat for one of their backup PG's plus a 1st is possible?
     
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  8. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

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    Silas system or variations of are being used to win in the playoffs.
    Sengun doesn't fit that mold. I would trade Sengun yesterday.

    Unfortunately the Rockets can't get equal value back for what we
    paid for his selection and his contract doesn't net much in talent.
    So Rockets must package Sengun with another or others.

    Sengun must use drop coverage and is too slow.....will always cost
    us vs the good playoff teams that hit 3's from multitude of players.

    Everyone here knows I want quick, scoring facilitators with size that can rebound
    block shots and pass. So:

    Green (fit}
    KPj (fit)

    Jabari (fit)
    Tari (fit)
    Kenyon (fit)

    Garuba ( in the mold of Looney and Robert Williams.....fit)
    Bruno ( PnR lob threat and rim protector.......fit)

    Tate (optional)
    ----------
    Trade:
    Sengun
    EG (or let him go in summer as his contract clears $20M )
    Mathews
    TyTy
    J Christopher
    Boban


    Give me more Tari-Jabari types:
    Siakim, Chris Boucher, Anunoby, Bobby Portis, Jeremiah Grant, Cam Johnson,
    Mikal Bridges, Miles Bridges, Scottie Barnes, P.J. Washington, Keegan Murray,
    Herbert Jones,

    I'll take Bones Hyland, Tyus Jones, Jose Alvarado as backups
     
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  9. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    I think this being discussed and evaluated continuously this year. It highly likely will not be answered until the off-season though.

    The Rockets want a high pick again (the 3 year plan to acquire talent and clear cap space has been evident for a looooong time) then see where they land in the draft. If it’s a top 2 pick they will keep it. If it’s not they could trade it and Nets assets, could keep it and trade Sengun and Nets assets.

    Tons of options.

    How about this lineup?

    Scoot Henderson
    Jalen Green
    Tari Eason
    Jabari Smith Jr
    Ayton

    Mike Conley free agent
    TyTy
    Christopher
    Tate
    Garuba

    Nets assets, Sengun, KJ Martin after Suns flameout again for Ayton
     
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  10. astrosrule

    astrosrule Member

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    Nothing can really be discussed until we know where our pick is. That’s what will determine everything. Of course i want gordon gone, would dump him for anything but otherwise i wouldn’t trade anyone else
     
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  11. javal_lon

    javal_lon Member

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    I'm afraid there's no real realistic solution for this year... No one on this team will fetch any kind of impact player that will make us balanced .. Better to wait it out to see which players fit around our potential cornerstone( Jalen ain't one yet)..
    Now next season, I think the kid gloves come off. They'll have the money, high pick, and young experienced role players to make some moves.. Of course that's assuming KMJ , Sengun, and Tate have
    " statically" decent per 48min numbers.. So basically what I'm saying is , I wouldn't do a damn thing personnel wise this year.. I would however DEMAND that Silas plays these potential trade assets consistently, no questions asked..
     
    DaDakota likes this.
  12. AroundTheWorld

    Supporting Member

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    I wouldn't trade Alpi, Green, Bari, Tari, Garuba and probably not TyTy yet, want to see what he has first. Would also prefer to keep KMJ, he energizes the crowd.

    Definitely trade Gordon, Nix, Mathews first chance you get. Gordon deserves a shot at a title, doesn't fit our timeline. Nix and Mathews - addition by subtraction.

    On the fence with regard to KPJ and Josh Christopher. Talented but somewhat selfish, but have seen signs if improvement in KPJ. Would like to see what a real coach could do with them.

    Tate, Bruno, Boban - I like them, am indifferent from a basketball perspective.
     
  13. Roomba

    Roomba Dude, 别他妈急

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    Llull sea

    2025 Rookie of the year, that guy
     
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  14. Corrosion

    Corrosion Member

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    Really depends on who is available .... and if the price is right. One horse isn't gonna win this race, it takes a team.....
     
    #14 Corrosion, Nov 21, 2022 at 12:54 AM
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2022 at 1:03 AM
  15. Aruba77

    Aruba77 Contributing Member

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    Though he’s struggling, Green is still our franchise player and I don’t think you trade him. I also think it would be a big mistake to trade Jabari considering his youth, length and skill set. everyone else should be made available for the right deal.

    If there’s an exception I’d say it’s Tari. I think he’s more of a 4 than a 3, but he has too much upside to deal.

    KPJ is actually our best player and he’s on a team-friendly contract, but he doesn’t really work in the back court with Jalen.

    because I think Tari and KPJ have such high upside, I could live with having them split the 3 spot, and getting Jabari and Green’s backup minutes.

    that’s a core of Jabari/Tari/KPJ/Green and that locks down the 4/3/2. Those are our highest upside players.

    Some combo of Sengun/KJ Martin/ EG/Tate/Christopher could fetch us a cornerstone player. We’ll also get one in the 2023 draft. And there’s also 2023 free agency.

    so there are lots of ways to revamp this team, but we’ve got to identify who we are committed to developing and who we can part with. We can’t develop them all.
     
  16. Sengoat28

    Sengoat28 Member

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    I hope Rockets trade Sengun dont care for who and where but i cant see how Rockets waste an all star player talent here.
     
  17. cmoak1982

    cmoak1982 Member
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    No. Silas system or similar are not being used to win in the playoffs.
    This is a falsehood
     
  18. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Easter Egg Hunter - Tell me why? نحن عائلة

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    Silas.
    Gordon.
    Tate.
    .....
     
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  19. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

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    Get out of here.

    Something similar is a broad range.

    All teams run the same sets or formations:
    Horns set
    5-men out
    4-men out 1 in (post up or Dunker Spot )
    Pick-n-Roll
    Pick-n-Pop
    Weave
    Dribble handoffs
    Etc....etc

    Mavs in 2019 ran a high dosage of Pick-n-Roll using Dwight Powell and
    WCS as Roll Men.... Pick-n-Pop with Kleber and Porzingis.

    Sengun can't shoot for distance now for two years....so no P-n-Pop
    Sengun can't be that lob threat....so a poor WCS/D Powell P-n-Roll threat.

    Sengun is the stick in the spokes that interferes with us playing the style
    Silas wants to play. Bruno would give him a semblance of.
    What you see the Warriors and Boston run to get to the finals last year.
    They start off with the same formations.....but It's what you do after that
    separates one team from another.

    Sengun is best at Post Up.......you see very little post ups run by the Dallas
    2019 team......Doncic was very good at post ups then but ran it at a small
    frequency back then. And i can't find many on the team that ran it much
    back then. Sticking Sengun in the post is asking Silas to do something
    that he doesn't care for......and the league is frowning against recently.
    The numbers league wide show this.

    We just haven't seen half the Silas system because we haven't provided
    him with the right personnel. This is why we are forced to obtain
    Boban and WCS this off-season. WCS production just fell off the
    cliff last season. Was it because WCS is out of shape or is it because
    Jason Kidd just used him less? Boban is a waste right now.
    I said during the preseason that his 3Pt DFG% is too horrendous.
    He is unplayable unless you run some zone defense. When Sengun was out recently,
    Boban played some......it was while in zone defense.

    I would argue the closest we have seen to the Silas offense was last year
    in the first 9 games before C Wood started refusing to run the that
    Porzingis role. And Theis was a poor version of Dwight Powell or WCS.
    Theis gave our guards no vertical spacing. No lob over the top in the paint.

    I saw a glimpse of it last night with Garuba acting the role of Kleber
    shooting 3's and Jalen Smith running the Porzingis role. Some.
     
    #19 ApacheWarrior, Nov 21, 2022 at 2:20 AM
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2022 at 2:38 AM
    gfab-babyboi and No Worries like this.
  20. pmac

    pmac Contributing Member

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    #1 pick is a Center
    #2 pick is a PG

    We'd be pretty dumb to waste any asset on one of those positions if we end up drafting our PG or C of the future and play them all game long anyway.

    If you watched the rockets the last couple years you would have thought we really had a gap at forward with all the minutes going to Mathews and Tate, now people think of that position as solidified.

    Be patient. This is how a rebuild works. If we draft 1 or 2, in a year, you will be talking about how great we are at PG or C.
     
    Streakshooter and Dobbizzle like this.

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