Would you take Elton Brand, If he came with Evan Turner?

His shot isn't bad at all, I mean Turner. No one is going to leave him open that is for sure.

Wade didn't have a good shot coming into the league, Turner is coming into the NBA with a better shot than Wade, but a worse shot then Roy. But also more Athleticism than Roy.

I would not compare him to IGGY, Iggy is more like a SF that plays the 2 with his skillset. He's more of a player that plays in transition also and Turner is a guy that can ISO and score in halfcourt.

 

When did I say that franchise players weren't drafted in the top 5?

There's a very statistically clear difference between what I'm saying and what you just interpreted as my position. It's the difference between the statement "every Houstonian is an American" and "every American is a Houstonian."

I realize that every franchise guy is a top draft pick. However, given the sheer number of top 5 picks in the past 7 years (since Lebron's year), the odds are heavily stacked against you in terms of drafting one.

So, since 2003, there have been 35 top 5 picks. There are 7-8 guys that are worth Brand's $17mil/year. That's about 20-25% chance you're getting good value for dishing out that guaranteed contract. Not a great investment.

 

Thanks for the reply. When no one followed up on my post, I was beginning to wonder if I'd had some sort of "internet hallucination," or flashback, as we called them back in the day.

Damn, that fall looks brutal and he did it to himself. Just a really odd, freaky thing to happen. I still wonder how it impacts his play going forward. The guy missed 6 games (and his team missed him, losing half the games), returned and scored 32 his third game back, going 11/21 from the field and 9/10 from the line, hitting his only 3 point attempt, with 9 boards, 3 assists, and a steal to go with (gulp!) 6 turnovers. Except for the turnovers, a heck of a stat line. The rest of the season, he played very well, except for some astonishing turnover numbers from time to time. He had another 4 games scoring over 30 points and 11 games with double digit rebounds. This cat is a rebounding machine, especially for his position. Besides the back, which I would want examined by Bones McCoy with the latest Star Trek gadgets, the turnovers are the only weakness that jumps out at you.

Assuming the back is honestly a non-issue, the dude is worth paying a lot to pick up, in my opinion. You'd worry about Martin later. I don't see how you pass on a chance to get a Roy-plus level talent, which this guy just might be.

 

Except your chances of winning a championship without one of these players, is smaller.

Are you in the NBA to be a mediocre team that just hopes to one day stumble upon Lebron...or do you plan on winning as many championships you can. Thats why the Lakers and Celtics have the titles they do, they make aggressive moves.

You trade your starting Center for a Kobe Bryant, that has helped the Lakers win 4 championships...they don't make that move they are another Mediocre team for who knows how long.

The chances are small, but what are we giving up to take the chance? That is something that has to be considered. We would not be giving up much with how it would work out. We will be a above average team if we don't make the move, is that good enough?

To me it isn't, and Morey said he'll be looking to make aggressive moves like that and that in order to get something you have to give something.

If we get Brand+Turner and Turner busts, how much does it hurt the team? We'll know what Turner is by the time Brand's contract runs out it will be the exact time (going by current NBA contracts) that Turner either has a team option and RFA or becomes a full UFA. So we can just move on if it doesn't work.

But if a guy like Turner turns out to be a stud...you are talking about a Brooks-Turner backcourt for a long time. A player that helps the franchise get back on television and brings some excitement back to the team.

If Turner is somewhere in between...oh well, we are in the same place now.

We are in mediocre land right now, it is the worst place to be. Yes, worse than being a completely bad team because at least then you'd have a top pick because of sucking.

 

No, not really, I was just saying that the #2 pick hasn't turned out any better than 3-4-5 so shouldn't be worth more than those. It would be dumb to trade 2 for 5 straight up, but smart to go after something lower than 2 and give less up. With any of the 2-3-4-5, there is a less than 50% chance that you'll get a player worth taking on Brand's contract for.

 

I'd be all for getting Turner if this was NBA Live 2010. But, it's not. That deal will be on the table only during the offseason, and the Rockets still have the issue of having to sign Lowry and Scola to new contracts, as well as extend Yao and Brooks' contracts.

With the team already over the luxury tax, it'll be impossible to take on Brand's nauseating contract without getting rid of at least two of those guys. It would be nice if you can have your cake, and eat it too, but there's a good reason why you can't.

Therefore, the proposal is really this. Brand and a 20-25% chance at a Brandon Roy-esque player, OR keep your core of Yao, Brooks, Scola, and have a solid backup in Lowry.

 

Les would be willing to go over the cap if they make the move. Both Lowry and Scola are RFAs, if the Rockets want to let them go because of Luxury that's their option. Because I think you can go over the cap to resign your RFAs. We'd also send back players to match Brand's contract, we are not solely just taking on Brands entire contract, can't do that.

Now you are talking about extending Yao and Brooks, thats a bit off into the future and depends on if we want to extend those guys. Yao might get another serious injury putting his career in doubt, Brooks might regress. no one is in a hurry to extend either of them right now. Also who knows how contracts will be handled after the players union and ownership settle on something.

Even if that was the proposal...that core is still mediocre, i don't know why so many people are trying to hang onto it like we are the Lakers. I don't see any reason to keep the core together...and besides if Scola, Brooks, Yao, Lowry are the core, it is very realistic chance that we get the #2 pick and keep the same core together.

It all depends on what you are giving up, if getting Turner means losing Lowry, Scola, and plus the depth we'd give away that is a big loss...but it's not. Lowry and Scola are not going anywhere, neither is Yao. The only one I could see losing is Brooks and in that case you are trading a prospect for a prospect.

 

That's a tough one... Evan Turner looks like he'll be a Brandon Roy-esque player and he's a better rebounder, too. Elton Brand is a nice backup, but for that kind of money? It depends on what the Rockets give up, maybe a Battier/Ariza plus some assets (Bud, Hill, Taylor) and the 14th and/or next year's pick.

 

Elton Brand could be the second coming of Juwon Howard

Rocket River

 

Brand's contract is TERRIBLE.

I don't think I could do it for the promise of a good player.

 

Sure, and we should have kept T-Mac because he, Scola, and AB only cost $28 million.

This is why Philly would do it:

We would have to match against Brand's $16 million contract (draft picks salaries' count as $0 in trades), so we could legally send as little as $12 million in salaries over there to match it. That right there gives them $4 million less salary this coming season. Also, I believe we got a $5 million TPE from the BIG TRADE. If so, they can potentially get $9 million below where they are by trading with us. Also, we would be sending them Jeffries $6.9 million salary, perhaps alone, to make the salaries match. Thus, they would be $16 million lower in team salary than they are right now, at the end of the 2010-2011 season.

I don't think it is so outlandish that they would do this, maybe with no other sweetener thrown in. If there aren't any better offers, it wouldn't surprise me at all if they would take it.

 

I respectfully disagree with you. Turner is nice,but you're giving up way too much.

 

Taking on Brand's contract for Turner is worth it, imo. But what are we going to give up in the trade? The only players I would give up are Andersen and Jeffries.

Brand is not a bad player. He just has a bad contract. And Turner is going to be special.

 

1) We didn't trade Tmac because he was expensive. We traded him because he sucked on the court.

2) We're not the only ones who can trade with Philly if we're not gonna be giving up assets. If Philly is just hellbent on saving $$$ the best trade partner would be Dallas. Dampier's contract is non guaranteed, so they can include him and then cut him outright saving that team $$$ instantly, instead of paying expiring players a season's worth of salaries. If we do this deal we're not only absorbing Brand's contract, we would also be giving up some pieces.

 

FWIW, Hoopshype thinks Dampier's contract is guaranteed.

Dallas Salaries

 

That's bizarre. I've been reading the opposite, seemingly forever.

 

Yes, if it will only cost Ariza/Jeffries and change... Ariza wont be happy in Houston anyway with fewer shots and opportunities.

Brand is probably worth $8M/yr (using a player like Millsap as comparison). That makes his contract overpaid by $27M over the remaining 3 yrs. BUT we get Turner on the cheap for his 4 year rookie contract - so its like paying him an additional 6.75M/yr -which is not that bad for a starting SF with Brandon Roy potential

 

I've looked into it, via the supreme truth that one finds in web sites.

One site refers to a buyout

But
other sites think he can be waived cost-free

I believe the latter is true, that his contract said that he could get the last year if he met certain conditions that he did not meet, and that he has a $0 buyout. They call this the Dampier Ultimate Sign-and-Trade (DUST) Chip.

 

Thanks... that was a thunderous response!

 

According to Mitch Lawrence of the NY Daily News, the 76ers may try to trade Andre Iguodala if (as expected) they draft Evan Turner.

Specifically, Lawrence writes, "[Sixers GM Ed Stefanski] could start reshuffling the deck by moving Andre Iguodala to Dallas in a package deal. The Mavs are looking for help at shooting guard." Fair warning: this seems like pure speculation, and Philly is already shopping the #2 pick to any team willing to swallow Elton Brand's poisonous contract.