If Japan chooses to nuclearize themselves, what is our response. I just think that 60 years is enough, I don't know how they feel, but if they want to increase their military, we should let them, or actually, it shouldn't be our business.
This is not a joke, and this is not a drill. Pattern match: 100%. This, ladies and gents, is fatfatcow, returned to spew run-on sentences punctuated at random, but always 100% China-centric paranoia. u think Im kidding?!?!?@?!??!@?...!!!!!
It would depend on China. We have to convince China it isn't in their best interest to have N.Korea exist anymore, and we'd probably have to allow them to take some of N.Korea and annex it as part of a buffer zone. oh yeah, and money, lots and lots and lots of money. If China's on board to drop-kick N.Korea, so am I.
This step is indeed very radical. Krauthammer wrote about it about a month ago. The last thing the present day Chinese government, actually any Chinese government want is to see Japan nuclearize. Not only is a nuclear Japan a security risk for China, it also strips all the prestige the Chinese government possesses around it from South Korea to Burma. With two regional nuclear powers, the game would be wide open for all the small countries, ESPECIALLY Taiwan to gain security umbrellas. It is in the fundamental interest of China to keep America as the only other nuclear presence in the region. Facing the American threat to nuclerize Japan, and knowing the humiliating and disastrous loss its diplomacy would face, the current Chinese government just might be able to feel compelled to invade N. Korea (easily succeeding, I might add). Communist powers have a habit to "spank" undisciplined vassals or semi-vassals. USSR did it to China in 1969, Vietnam did it to Cambodia and China did it in 1979 against Vietnam. The most famous example was the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Many seem to forget that before the Soviet invasion, the Afghan government was Communist. It was slightly ideologically unothodox and unstable. And the Soviets just walked into the country in about 24 hours.
upon further review puedlfor made my point with about 10% of my words. I should switch to decaf and Sleep.
We owned the entire Korena peninsula at one point during the war more or less until McArthur decided to bomb on the chinese side of the border which prompted them to invade Korea. So technically it could be said that it was the ambitions of McArthur that made North Korea what it is today. Now as far as military action against North Korea, you're kidding right? Bush couldn't afford the public relations disaster the thousands upon thousands of casualties would provoke. Not to mention that the U.S. starting a war in Korea would be pissing in China's wheaties so to speak. Adding to that, there isn't any oil in North Korea and U.S. Corporate interests have more invested in making China a major trade partner so I think that you'll find that Bush's handlers will be keeping a tight rein on his dumbass whenever they let him out of his cage to make statements to the public regarding North Korea. Color me stupid, but I don't forsee a war happening in North Korea happening without China's explicit cooperation.
Your history is wrong. Chinese forces have been covertly passing into N. Korean territory shortly after the Americans crossed the 38th parallel. The secrecy of the operation was the reason of later American surprise and retreat. You can blame MacArthur for crossing the 38th, but he didn't order airstrikes into China. In fact, the international protocol was very strictly observed. There still stands a rail bridge across the Yalu with only the Korean half bombed out by the Americans. As for the present day North Korean "milliion men army", I think they are vastly overrated. That is a force with little mobility or offensive prowess. The South Koreans have half that number of military personel. But I believe they alone can defeat the North. Not repell, but defeat and possibly conquer. China, as always, is the wild card. But I don't even see the Chinese leadership today entering a large scale land war with America.
The anti-war people wanted Bush to deal with North Korea because it's a bigger and more dangerous threat. That doesn't mean anti-war people wanted him to go cowboy and start sending in the Marines.
more tony: To fall back into the lassitude of the last 12 years, to talk, to discuss, to debate but never act; to declare our will but not enforce it; to combine strong language with weak intentions, a worse outcome than never speaking at all. And then, when the threat returns from Iraq or elsewhere , who will believe us? What price our credibility with the next tyrant? No wonder Japan and South Korea, next to North Korea, has issued such strong statements of support. You can start the conspiracy theory now that Bush and Blair had been plotting the demise of North Korea long ago.
My understanding of what happened in Korea is that after we entered, McArthur inserted troops above the North Korean forces in South Korea. They retreated since they had the South Koreans south of them and us North of them, and ran back over the 38th parallel. China warned us not to go near their border. Once we pushed the North Koreans up to the border, China sent their army into it for the North, pushing us back down to the 38th parallel. McArthur then wanted to extend the war into China, bombing supply lines and blockading Chinese ports, and he wanted to involve the exiled Chinese Nationalists. Truman wouldn't let him, knowing that we most likely wouldn't be successful fighting China. McArthur then wrote a letter to Congress trying to convince them that we needed to take the offensive with China. For trying to undermine him, Truman fired him. Thats straight out of my history notes.
There had been so many back and forths in that war, it literally hammers your brain apart. Here is a brief recap. North surprise attack, South collapsed, chaotic retreat. American outfits in Japan land in South, not enough, chaotic retreat. More Americans arrive, Pusan perimeter secure. MacArthur lands in Inchon, captures Seoul, cut off N. Korean forces. North tries to retreat, chaotically. MacArthur advances past 38th parallel, North continues to retreat in chaos. Chinese forces enter Korea in secrecy, Americans advance, oblivious. Chinese forces surprise MacArthur, overwhelm Americans, Americans retreat in chaos. MacArthur fired. American line eventually stabilizes at 37th parallel. Chinese offensive unsuccessful, ends in disaster, retreat to north of 38th parallel in chaos. The line then stablized slightly north of the 38th in a mountainious belt. Bottom line: MacArthur's ideas about the Nationalist Chinese forces in Taiwan, et al. had no bearing on actual proceedings of war because of the fact that he was already relieved. No bombing of Chinese territories were planned. The Chinese entering Korea were officially "volunteers". Blockade of China was part of containment that was only excellerated by the Korean War.
Planned by the US? No. Eventually planned by McArthur? Yes. The point I was trying to make though was that China entered the Korean War because they were uncomfortable with us being to close to their borders, not because we intended to bomb them. Not enough has to changed to where they'd allow us to go in and try to disarm North Korea now either, imho. Basically, Peudlfor said what I should have said, we can't fight them without making major concessions to China.
I voted for surgical strike, but that wouldn't be the first thing I do. I would enter into serious negotiations, and try early on to build world support for our position. N. Korea is known to have armed terrorists. They don't even to pretend to abide by nuke treaties. The thing is that the people in charge their are probably the most authoritarian in the world, they desperately want to hold on to power, and will probably go to any means to stay in charge.
thus the suggestion to threaten China with a nuclearized Japan. The only concession America can give China would be Taiwan, which would be a non-starter. North Korea is not only America's problem, China feels the pain of a rogue nation at the doorsteps as well (N. Korea already smuggles drugs and automobiles into China regularly). Adding Japan to the equation might actually compell China to act.
It's pretty hard to negotiate with a country that doesn't even pretend to abide by treaties. That is the reason N. Korea has been an eyesore ever since last year. There's just not much America can do with it.
I agree, that's why I would start by bringing on as many other nations as possible early on and getting the nuke inspectors back in. I think the wrong to go about that diplomacy is to say this is what we are going to do, and either you other countries can come with us or you're weak and irrelevant. I would start now, by explaining our thinking, and asking for people's help, and taking any other suggestions, because someone else might always come up with a better idea. That might not ruffle the feathers of other nations, and seems like we might get more cooperation in getting N. Korea defused. That way even if it did come to some kind of military conflict other nations would already be on board.
