Would the Rockets already be in WC Finals if they had Gay instead of Battier?

No

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Yep, antoine walker and jason williams are winners too since they have rings. I guess tim thomas stepping up with amare being out and helping the suns get to the conf finals makes him a winner too? I'm running out of finger to put rings on since shane has been here also

 

does someone still want me to continue the gay-battier debacle???

cos I know all about it and my heart and passion goes all the way into the topic when I talk about it!

Bottom line: Gay would've been better. Battier is great but he wasn't worth Gay.

But that was a huge mistake. But even as one of the biggest critics of the trade, I'm saying lets concentrate on game 7 for now and talk about these trades after we get eliminated...(or win the NBA Finals)...

 

and I don't get it, I personally is one of the most passionate critic (or hater) of the Gay-Battier trade, but I don't quite get what the OP is saying...sarcastic??? or what??? does he like the trade or not I cannot deduce...

 

Spoiler

^^^^not the sharpest tool in the shed

 

Nobody ever claimed that Battier was shutting Kobe down. Who could shut down Kobe? You are beating up the straw man.

By bringing up the numbers, you are clearly claiming that Battier's defense has no effect on Kobe and our success against the Lakers so far has nothing to do with Battier. This is what I am calling you out on. Don't dodge it. If you are not claiming that, then tell me what is your point about the numbers.

 

So you dont think brooks being unguardable has anything to do with the rox tied either? I dont have to look at stats, but people like to bring them up except when talking about shane. 8.5ppg and 36% and 31% from 3. Mind you, he had 23 pts one game. By the way, the celts handles kobe pretty good last yr with paul pierce, ray allen, and james posey. none of those guys made 1st,2nd, or 3rd team all defense.

 

Leebigez....the point is this:

The lakers win more by sharing the wealth, right? So what happens when they can't share it because the opponent shuts down most of the team? Its up to kobe to carry them. History has shown they don't win as much this way, but it's also shown Kobe is capable of carrying them by himself sometimes.

So if you tell me Kobe is getting all his regular season numbers against shane, then i'd assume that means they're playing like they did during the season. Share the ball and win, BUT, thats the thing, they aren't. The rest of the lakers have struggled, which means its up to kobe to carry them at times, BUT HE HASNT. that's the key. In a series like this Kobe's number should have all increased because the rest of the team isn't helping, so the only way for them to win is for him to take over, yet he hasnt been able to. Why? Because of Shane. Hes not giving him the chance to do more. Otherwise he would have gone off for 50 in a game like game 1 or game 6 and pulled off a close win.

All this time opponents have always asked, do you let Kobe get 50 or 60 and shut everyone else down? Or do you contain Kobe, since you can't shut him down, and let everyone else get theirs? Everyone's been thinking the first choice was the best one, but that's because no one ever asked, do you contain Kobe and shut everyone else down?

Now THAT is really the best option, no one else has the players to do it though.

 

rockets biggest problem = lack of offense

rudy's biggest strength = offensive power

 

im pretty sure they had a DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR on their team. And like the thread that was posted on here some time ago explained, Boston used team D against him, crashing down on him, not one on one like houston is mostly doing. So it's not just posey, allen, and pierce, but those 3 AND KG, big baby, perkins, etc. Perkins is a solid defender himself also. KG of course was the def player of the yr and his combination of eight and speed allow him to help defend Kobe's slashing ability very well.

 

Rockets biggest problem = lack of height/length

Stromile's strength = height and length


Yeah, it's not as easy as just filling in holes like that...there's more to it, otherwise we'd be talking about needing Stromile right now..

 

Rockets strength among its rotation players = all out effort and hustle

one of Rudy Gay's weaknesses = lazy

 

I knew you were coming . I kinda get what you're saying because kobe is shooting 4 more shots per game vs the regular season. All i'm saying is and i've been consistent is it has never been about gay v battier as much as it was getting good value. Not getting value forced the rockets to trade 2 first round picks for artest. I dont mind that the rockets made a series effort to makeup or try to help the team because they saw it needed a guy that can make plays when yao and tracy is struggling or not here. Just think what would happen if ron wasnt there also.

 

and i think his knowledge of the opposing plays is extremely underrated. I never knew he did that until it was posted in the NY times article and i've been paying attention to it more and he gives the heads up to other guys a lot. Sometimes they catch it in time, sometimes they dont, but imagine how many defensive stops by the team or others happened because of it? And dont tell me it doesnt happen often or it's not that big of a deal, if it wasn't Mcmillan wouldnt be hiding his hand signals and Portland wouldn't have completely changed their play calling midway through the series because of it.

 

Houston gives shane alot of help also. The rox are not better without yao, but with yao off the court, the team can defend the pick and roll better. Then can closeup the space between kobe and the defender. With yao, he gave the gate for the defensive guy to get through which gave kobe air.

 

okay, don't you get the fact that height and length are factors that do not affect games at all?? its the offensive or defensive skills that arise BECAUSE of the height and length that affects games and winning and losing.

certainly the rockets need height and length...however size only matters when they are being used to affect games by either scoring, rebounding, blocking, etc etc...

how does size and length even matter when u don't do anything with them???
on the other hand, offensive firepower leads to scoring---which is a huge factor in winning games.

In fact, I don't even know what you are talking about. Height and length are there so you can get better at whatever aspect u want to do well right? ie getting more rebounds and having the option of being able to shoot over smaller opponents...ie...offensive power...we will accept scoring in whatever way done either by a player with size or without it...as long as he gets the scoring done...i.e. aaron brooks.

on the other hand we fail to score at times when things are not running smoothly...and rudy gay is certainly a go-to scorer in this league...rudy's offensive firepower will mean we have a better scoring attack and we won't have ron artest trying to jack up 20 jumpers a game since no one else can create their own shot consistently...maybe apart from brooks and scola...

man we even play von wafer meaningful minutes...

 

Evereyone know everyone plays. This isnt football where the offensive plays look like a phonebook. Now to his credit, everyone mabe doesnt comunicate it with the other teammates in live game action. No one is fooled by anyone else play, but they might get beat by the execution of it.

 

Wow. Now that's starting to be a habit...

You know, for me...this really isn't much of a debate...at least not anymore.

In my opinion, for sheer value, the Shane Battier/Rudy Gay trade was lopsided, at least in terms in pure talent. We overspent for what's been asked of Battier in relation to what it might actually cost to get a guy to do his job.

It's much easier to appreciate what Shane Battier means to the Rockets now because there are a couple more perimeter players who are much more aggressive and opportunistic offensively. My only real problem with Battier has always been his seeming disdain for any kind of significant (never mind consistent) contribution on the offensive end of the court.

For a guy that so many people have said is a very good offensive player, he's gone on record a few too many times with the idea that scoring was at least a waste of his time.

I would rather see Battier score 10-12 points a game consistently, than to see him score 24 points in one month, especially if he's going to be on the floor more than 30+ minutes a night.

I know how important the little things are. I love the fact that Battier is smart enough and humble enough and tough enough to take on jobs like that so eagerly. But considering what the Rockets had in terms of personnel before Daryl Morey, the Rockets have needed much more from him on the offensive end than he's given.

All that aside, I always say a player is who a player is. You don't chastise a player for what he can't do or doesn't do. You get guys to do those things for your team, so nobody's left out on an island. I don't know if the Rockets would be better off if Rudy Gay were in this series instead of Shane Battier or not. And I honestly don't care.

What's happening right now with the Rockets is too good to do the revisionist history thing, I think...

...especially at this late an hour...

 

i just get tired of bringing up the old trade. It should really have nothing to do with the rockets now because the changes made since then were made dependent on the players the team had. Keeping rudy instead would have completely changed the future and it may not have been for the better. Maybe houston wouldn't have gone after Brooks since it wouldn't have felt it needed scoring. Probably wouldn't have gone after greene either. Or bobby Jackson. Rafer may still be here, no Lowry. And those are just moves within the last 2 years..

It's not as simple as plugging in Gay for Shane and that's why we need to let this DIE.

 

first of all...how can u call rudy gay lazy...wheres ur evidence dude???

presume he coasts at times...so since kobe coasts and takes plays off you don't want him on ur team??? so lets get a all out hustle guy like chuck hayes instead of kobe???

plus...ur r****ded for saying rudy is bad for the team because he is lazy.....do u not think veteran lockrooms will change a player's motivation levels??? does playing for a perennial lottery team with no veteran presence and a bunch of rookies and an owner that doesn't plan on winning any time soon motivate u much???

duh...