Dude, if all it takes to "pan out" is steal a lot of bases, why don't the Astros or some other team sign Usain Bolt? Stolen bases are useful, but by themselves they don't make a good baseball player. They're helpful, if you're already good at hitting for average, getting on base, hitting for power, or some other skill. If you're hitting .250, getting on base at around .300 with an OPS of around .600, you simply aren't producing enough offense and/or generating enough runs to be a good player, regardless of how many bases you steal.
If Michael Bourne can't get on base at more than a .300 average... then he's not an everyday MLB player. He's a pinch-runner and defensive replacement.
Had to resurrect this topic.. There was so much made about how Willy Taveras was actually a solid player when he was hitting for average in 2007. People were willing to overlook his slump last year talking about injuries or the stolen bases or just the fact that he was still at least better than Bourn. Well, bring 2009. Avg: .242 OBP: .279 SLG: .290 2nd straight year down low in all 3 categories 23 SB in 88 games. Great job. I wouldn't care if he had 68 SB like he did the previous year.. still doesn't make up for it. The guy is almost completely a replaceable part. Buchholz and Hirsh haven't played this year. Hirsh was traded to the Yanks for a player to be named later last week--I'll be no one knew about that cause he and his > 6.00 ERA in AAA don't matter anymore.. and Buchholz had Tommy John a couple of months ago I don't really think we can call the Jennings trade a "bad" one anymore. At least Jennings is still a ML RP with a mid 3's ERA in the AL. I'd call it a wash all around.
and to clarify, the Lidge trade is looking pretty solid at this point also. I'd say Astros management has done good enough on both.
My only issue with either trade originally is what we got back not the who we traded... Jennings I thought would be a solid 3 not 2 but giving up Hirsch and Will T was alot for a 3...looking back would have much rather gone with Garland obivously but oh well. (Bucholz was never a factor to me even though he had a good year last yr) I still think we could have cashed in Lidge on the 07 trade deadline but Timmy P. was to gunshy to pull the trigger and thus got Bourn and one yr of Geary. This trade will turn out Advantage Stros in 5 yrs big time but we could have gotten two quality players not just one!
let me get this straight, you're arguing that a trade where no one won, and the guy we got is gone because he sucked here, is a good trade?
i'm arguing that it's far from being: a horrible trade, one of the worst in franchise history, or one of the worst of all time.. when as you say, no one won and no one lost
I think the Jennings deal will have to go down as the worst ever trade in Astros history. Purpu$$y gave up too much for a loser pitcher that had never accomplished anything significant in the Bigs. Taveras was a good starter with great speed that is pretty much what we got back in the Lidge deal with Bourn. Bourn I see as being a make up for losing Willy. I freaking hat Tim Purpura!!!!! ARRRGGGHHHHHH
It is an insult to Michael Bourn to mention him in the same sentence with Willy Taveras. Bourn does everything better than WillyT, everything. His CF defense, BA, OBP, SLG%, and steals are all significantly better than WillyT. Please refrain from comparing them just b/c they are speedy CFers. Bourn is a budding allstar, WillyT is a pinch runner/defensive replacement on a good team.
Yep. That was the problem with the Jennings trade. Not that the Astros gave up who they did, but at that time, they should have been able to turn them into something better than Jennings.
LOL I bring you warm greetings from Joe Freaking Morgan and Rusty Staub. And a casual wave from Ken Caminiti, too.
Yeah no kidding, bobrek. For some historical perpective for those of you who think dealing an underachieving CF and two no-account AAAA pitchers for a turd SP may be the "worst ever trade in Astros history" can be found here. Do give a quick read.
that Kenny Lofton one stuck with me for a long time. i had been excited about him coming up through the system....and then he was traded for a backup catcher. eddie taubensee. seriously? wow.
