Ummm, we replaced Lidge with Valverde. They're both dominant. We didn't lose anything. Willy T was replaced with Pence. Hirsch isn't any good. Buchholz is good, but it's not like he's a HOF'er or anything.
thats true but if he ever has a season like the one he had last year again then he would solve our problem
He's been in the league for four years, and been bad to terrible in three of them. And the one good one was largely Coors Field-aided. Those aren't odds you want to take.
Jennings BY FAR 1. He had a career year with humidified balls. Even without the Coors effect, he still wasn't a great pitcher. 2. He was damaged goods and and the Astros failed to realize it. 3. He only has one more year on his contract (which is why I was against it at the time). At the time the Astros had plenty of holes and plenty of question marks. It was basically a high-risk, low-reward trade (Some argued that it was a mediocre division, but I hate that way of thinking). Michael Bourn was at least a top 10 prospect from the Phillies (even though I never really liked him) and the Lidge trade also coincided with the Valverde trade. Hell, I'd put the Tejada trade as worse than the Lidge trade.
Here's the problem -- you guys are arguing a point that is irrelevant. Jennings was terrible. Yes, he was damaged goods. Yes, he was going to leave and did leave after the season. Yes, he had only had one good season. Outside of one solid eighth-inning guy (and the jury is still out on him, after one good season out of the pen), the Astros did not give up a single quality player to acquire Jennings. In the Lidge trade, the Astros gave up arguably one of the best closers of all-time, and possibly the MVP of the entire NL this season. Bourn is young and under control for several more years. When it's all said and done, he'll probably have made more of a positive contribution to the Astros than Jennings -- it's almost impossible not to. However, to look at it from that perspective -- which it feels like many of you are doing -- is incredibly flawed because it's based around an assumption that what we gave up was even. In one case, the principle player we gave up went 47-for-47 in saves with a 1.95 ERA on the National League's best team. In the other, the principle players we gave up were Willy Taveras and Jason Hirsh. It's not the same.
What happened to all of those threads saying Lidge had to go.. and all of the funny photoshops of Lidge being intimidated by little leaguers or throwing beachballs? I'm glad Lidge is having a great season but honestly those of you who are saying the Lidge trade was the worst ever did you honestly think two years ago he would be so dominant now?
The Astros last season got Hawkins and Wolf for less than Hirsh, Buchholz or Willy T. This idea that because a player is not a star, they have no trade value is nonsense. Young major league players always have some value - because they can provide teams cheap talent to fill out their team. It's always better to have players than not - you can always trade them for something, or have them be additional pieces in a trade centered around a top tier player. For example, in a trade with a Padres for Peavy, Buchholz would be one additional player you could package with Pence to get you a little bit closer. If Hirsh hadn't hurt himself, we have no idea what he'd be - even if he's a #4 level starter, that has value to a team trying to rebuild. Willy T's value after 2007 was possibly more than it was after 2006.
like for... oh, i don't know - jake peavy, for instance...... i don't agree with nick, that geary has been better than buchholz - certainly not this year. and buchholz is five years younger. assuming a similiar season here, i would guess pence and buchholz might at least get san diego's attention... certainly more than just pence.
Everyone says how Jennings was secretly damaged goods but who's to say Lidge was expected to recover 100% from his knee? Lidge could have re-aggravated the knee that made him mediocre. I say Jennings, only cuz the writing was kind of on the wall with Lidge. Stros basically already had Michael Bourn and Geary on the team already with Willy T and Buccholz,without having to deal. Though he's not any good, coulda kept Hirsh around Lidge maybe stays around, but Ed Wade might have felt to make the presense of the "new regime" be felt by dealing Lidge. For someone else besides Bourn if Willy T was still around and he (doubtful) would have had his Rockies 1st year numbers on the Stros. If not maybe even Chad Qualls and Chris Burke stays so they dont have to get Valverde to replace Lidge; though they also might have gotten dealt for someone else. Yeah not getting Jon Garland kinda sucked
Umm, what? If you're a starting outfielder and your OBP is .308 and your OPS is .604, you haven't panned out. I don't care if you steal 200 bases -- that is simply unacceptable and a bad offensive player.
agree to disagree but he had 15 doubles and 68 stolen bases, if they accounted for stolen bases in slugging % then it would be much better.
As long as we're changing the rules, how about awarding a team a run if a player has 2 stolen bases in one game. Yes, Willy has tremendous speed. That has never been questioned. Its the fact that he can't get on base to use that speed that is the frustrating part of his development.
All that means is that he made the most of the times he actually did find his way on base. Still doesn't change the fact that he got on base at an Adam Everett-like level throughout the entire season. If he gets on base like any other top of the order everyday player should... maybe he gets 200 stolen bases (like Cat said). But he's not doing that.
