I actually liked the trade initially too - until they made it clear they weren't going to sign him to an extension in the preseason (which turned out well). To me, you either had to sign him long-term so you were getting real value from him, or not make the trade. If they were going to wait until the end of the season anyway, they could have just signed him as a free agent. But regardless, I don't think anyone expected the flameout we got. That was just horrible.
I'm going to make a list of the players involved in those deals. Brad Lidge Eric Bruntlett Michael Bourn Geoff Geary Mike Costanzo Jason Jennings Miguel Acensio Willy Taveras Taylor Buchholz Jason Hirsh Tell me, what stands out about that list? I'll go first. Outside of Lidge, almost every player on that list is worthless. Yes, Buchholz and Geary have some value -- but baseball is a sport where players, especially relievers, routinely have fluke seasons, especially with the sample as small as 65 innings. Neither are considered exceptional, Lidge-like talents, and one season of middle relief (not closing) with an ERA in the 2s doesn't mean a whole, whole lot. Basically, you have a closer on a 50-save streak and potentially a Hall of Famer and one of the greatest of all-time... and a whole bunch of players who haven't done much of anything. If you don't choose the trade with Lidge, you're clueless, really. Now, I'll agree with Major -- the Jennings trade ended up bad because of the Astros' bizarre mentality that they have to have a track star in CF, and it contributed to dealing Lidge for Bourn. But that's not the fault of the trade -- that's the responsibility of idiotic personnel people. On the field, it's clear which was the worst trade.
This is the third or so comment like this in this thread, and it drives me up the wall. Willy Taveras sucks. Michael Bourn sucks. There was nothing wrong with Hunter Pence in CF, or acquiring a CF that isn't a track star. Major's explanation makes the most sense -- the Astros, and their fans, were so blown away by Beltran that we've constantly tried to find a replacement. But in the process, we've forgotten the part of the equation that made him so special -- his bat! This Astros team was successful with players like Craig Biggio and Lance Berkman in CF, even in MMP. I'm not saying I'd go back to those days, but there can be a balance. You don't have to toss offense out the window for the sake of a glorified sprinter. The Astros didn't have to make the Lidge trade because they lost Taveras. Hell, Taveras shouldn't have been starting, anyway. The Astros dealt Lidge for a CF/leadoff man because of an idiotic mentality -- and to judge the trades on that scale is silly. By the way, I propose a rule on this board: if you ever complain about losing Willy Taveras, you should forfeit the right to ever complain about Michael Bourn or even speak about replacing him. They're the same player.
While we did not get much of a return, I think it was still a great trade. We still had Dotel and Lidge to move up in the bullpen and with the mega money we saved on him, we spent on Pettitte.
Which is really all that matters in the end... results. Had the Astros kept Taveras/Hirsh/Buchholz, they are in no better position than they are right now... and they likely still trade Brad Lidge for something if everything else holds true (his up and down 2007 with an injury). Additionally, I still don't see the presumed trade value in those three. Yes, after 2006, they were attractive players... and in the end, the Astros should have gotten more for them at the time (even though those same three players weren't enough to get Jon Garland... what pitcher is in-between Jason Jennings... when healthy... and Jon Garland?). But after they've continued to not evolve into reliable everyday players... the Astros aren't saying "what if we had held on to Willy T!". Lidge, on the other hand, may make this trade look worse and worse... especially if he gets a ring this year, and goes on to have another 3-4 solid years. And, after its all said and done... this team still needs a reliable #2 guy in its rotation... and is willing to trade either its CF (Bourn?/Pence), closer, and any other young club-controlled player that will make it happen (much like the Jennings trade). I will hand it to Pupurra that he knew the team wasn't losing future potential all-stars when he handed them to Colorado... I still wish the Garland trade had gone through.
We got squat for him in return... I consider that a bad trade, especially considering when we traded him, he was probably the #2 closer in baseball, coming off an all-star year, and his contract was easily manageable. One of Gerry's few low-spots... has he got suckered (by our own Ed Wade) into taking on Buchholz who was only the Phillies #3 top prospect (behind Hamels and Floyd). Then again, he likely had a mandate from up high to get rid of Wagner at any cost... thanks to Billy's mouth (which hasn't stopped running since).
Jennings trade was far worse. Lets see, we were able to replace Lidge with Villarreal (not as good as Lidge, but pretty damn good himself). Meanwhile, we're still looking for the elusive #2 starter. The Jennings trade was an EPIC FAIL at an attempt to get one. And why didn't you mention Geary? He was pretty solid for us. Michael Bourn was a terrible hitter but stole bases and gave us fantastic speed, range, and an accurate and strong throwing arm in CF, something neither Pence or anyone else on the roster could give us. It's necessary to have his speed in CF with Lee in LF. His hitting will improve with winter ball and additional coaching. Notice his numbers once we started batting him in the 2 hole behind Matsui. Bourn batting 2nd: .292 BA, .354 OBP
If you judge by one season, sure. Geary has had an ERA below 3 in 2 of the past 3 seasons, and below 3.75 in 3 of the last 4 seasons. Do you realize exactly how small 65 innings is? This is a sport where players routinely have fluke seasons all the time, and relievers pitch such a microscopic portion of seasons that it's even more prevalent among them! One good season out of the bullpen doesn't prove all that much.
Brad F'n Lidge... I think the Jennings trade was atrocious, however, the Lidge one hurts, given his current success.
Lidge had to be traded. Even if he had regained his confidence and pitched like his pitching in Philly, I cant imagine Drayton paying a closer 13 mil a year. I'm glad he is doing well in philly though.
jason jennings because we would still hav willy t. so our center field problem would be solved and we lost alot of players that could be useful for the bulpen and lidge wouldnt be doing good in houston he needed a change in scenery
Sure wish we would've gotten Victorino instead of Bourn. That would have at least been sort of reasonable.
Willy Taveras: .251 average, .308 OBP, .296 SLG, .604 OPS If you admit we have a problem now (with Bourn), on what planet does Willy Taveras "solve" it?
I believe the Lidge deal was the worst, and here is why, nobody knew at the time that Jennings was damaged goods. At the time the trade seemed pretty good, and like people said the other players involved in that trade has done nothing. So I won't fault The Astros that much on the trade. On the other hand, The Astros should have traded Lidge a long time ago and not wait until his value was at its worst. We all knew his problem was mental and nothing more, so we should have gotten a much much better deal for him. The Philly CheeseSteaks robbed us big time and now we are going to witness a former Astro win a ring, Lidge or Wheeler.
