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Worst series decision making wise of Hinch’s career...

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Htown Stros, Oct 31, 2019.

  1. Htown Stros

    Htown Stros Member

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    I’ve been refraining from posting and have been trying to think about what happened logically instead of emotionally. That said, after sleeping on it I still have the same opinion I had after the game last night - this is the worst series I’ve seen from Hinch decision making wise. Apologies for adding to the negativity on this board right now and starting another thread complaining about subjective decisions but I have rarely criticized Hinch and I challenge anyone to find posts by me that prove otherwise. I’ve been a huge fan of his and have always regarded him as one of the best managers in the game right now. Yes I realize our offense did not so their part and left way too many runners on base but there were two awful decisions by Hinch that also significantly contributed to us losing the series....

    The first was pulling Urquidy for James in Game 4 after 65 pitches, zero signs of him losing control of the game and the pitcher’s spot due up to lead off the 6th. In addition, we had a 4 run lead so why are you pulling him there? And even if you saw something or Urquidy told you he was done (no chance), how do you land on Josh James as your choice? The only way they were getting back into that game was exactly what happened - walking two out of the first three hitters which is the only thing you absolutely cannot do. And that wasn’t just a player not having it that night...he’s been walking guys at a alarming rate ALL season! Even Joe Buck could have provided that analysis.

    The reason I’m bringing that decision up even though we won the game is because it played a huge role in last night’s loss. The stupid decision resulted in him having to go to Harris in a game he absolutely would not have been needed in otherwise. It was the second game/night in a row and guess who he struck out to end the inning with runners on 2nd and 3rd? That’s right...the guy who took him deep last night to put them ahead basically sealing our fate.

    He overworked Harris - even if he wasn’t tired last night, they had WAY too many looks against him in a short time span and because of the Urquidy decision Kendrick got a free extra look at him and could absolutely have been the reason he was able to hit that pitch, which was in a good location, last night. He pitched in 5 of the games - I don’t care how good your stuff is, if you play a team as good as the Nationals, they are going to eventually get to you, especially when you’re a reliever who throws TWO pitches. This has been proven to be true time and time again. Unless the back of jersey reads Rivera or you’re a lefty specialist getting one out at a time, I don’t want to see any reliever pitching 5 times in a 7 game series.

    The second decision was pulling Greinke last night. He hadn’t lost control of the game - he made a bad pitch to perhaps the MVP of the NL but he still kept the lead. I could present a pretty compelling case to pitch around/walk Soto there which is exactly what Greinke was doing - honestly I think Greinke might have more baseball IQ than Hinch or anyone else on the team for that matter. I guess Hinch would have rather watched Soto hit the ball off the fu**ing train (JV and Cole really blew that electric fastball right by him the whole series huh?) and tie the game than walk him. After all, it really worked out pitching aggressively to him down 3-2 with first open a couple innings later. I get the intentional walk isn’t a great move analytically but that doesn’t mean you can’t do what Greinke did and pitch carefully to him.

    That said, I couldn’t come up with a rational defense for both pulling Greinke AND going to Harris there - if you are going to pull the “ace” that you traded solid prospects and agreed to pay $25M next year for around three months ago for this EXACT reason (and he was delivering for us), it better be for a considerably better option and the only pitcher on our roster who fit that description last night was Cole.

    Finally, anyone who thinks his decision making wasn’t a major factor as to why we lost this series is kidding themselves. My first response to an argument that tries to convince me otherwise: what other manager in the history of baseball has pulled TWO different starters in the same WS (or hell even any playoff series) who had only given up one/no runs on two hits through 5-6 innings, had a pitch count under 85 with no health related restrictions (and on normal days rest), and had a lead small enough for the game to be tied on one swing? Answer that first and maybe I’ll listen to your argument...
     
  2. Hank McDowell

    Hank McDowell Member

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    Completely agree. I like Hinch, but his decision making hurt us. Of course so did the situational hitting, but it’s absolutely fair to say that Hinch holds his share of the blame too.
     
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  3. DieHard Rocket

    DieHard Rocket Contributing Member

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    Well put. Sums up a lot of the conclusions I've come to. It's hindsight of course, but that's AJ's job.

    Grienke was rolling and had that same feel that Morton/Mccullers did in '17 when they were rolling in game 7(s). At a very minimum he should have been allowed to face Kendrick. It's a little baffling how AJ would let JV and Cole work themselves out of jams but Grienke was literally pulled at the first sign of stress. Third time through the lineup or not, don't care, he was on.

    Then to compound that with putting Harris in like you said who they had seen so much. The right answer was either keep Grienke in or put Cole in.

    Good point about G4 too. Reminds me of Boone pulling Paxton in G2 of the ALCS so early, I think that compounded and ended up playing a large part in us beating the Yankees.

    First time Hinch has really felt human to me so to speak. He usually pushes the right buttons but not this WS. I think the talent in the Nats lineup really got to his head.
     
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  4. Htown Stros

    Htown Stros Member

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    I think his biggest flaw is his stubbornness and the fact that it seems like he has his favorites that he often overlooks analytics, which he and our front office are obviously huge supporters of, when it comes to decision making with them. Does anyone think he's pulling Verlander last night if it was him on the mound instead of Greinke?

    Speaking of favorites, how is Reddick STILL starting meaningful games for us? It didn't factor into why we lost since we won all three at their stadium but it is hard for me to understand why he didn't give Yordan more time out in LF during the regular season while we had a commanding division lead. Further, would have given Brantley time to get more comfortable playing RF (he's only played LF/CF in the MLB) and would have given him the option to rotate guys in and out of the DH and maybe someone like Diaz gets hot. Instead, he keeps running out a guy who's put up a WHOPPING .412 OPS in the ALCS and WS games he's played with us since 2017. The same guy who has been the fifth worst outfielder (not just RF, all three spots) out of FOURTY EIGHT qualifying outfielders since the start of the 2018 season. We basically used a NL lineup at home as an AL team against a NL team running out an AL lineup...and ironically the difference maker was their DH Kendrick.

    No one can tell me with a straight face it's just a "small sample size"...the guy flat out f***** sucks. I understand why our players and Hinch like/respect the guy because it isn't a case where a player got paid and then started declining a bit - he seems like a good guy/teammate and I'd love to have him as a 4th/5th OF at $2M-$3M but it's mind blowing how a team that is so analytically driven continues to run him out there game after game. If I see his name in the lineup card for opening day next year again I think I might lose it.
     
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  5. DieHard Rocket

    DieHard Rocket Contributing Member

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    I'm with you on Reddick but he bothered me much less this postseason that those prior. Don't know his numbers but it felt like he was a little more productive, and I do like having his arm in RF.

    Tucker should get at least half a season to prove himself in RF next year, and Yordan should be given some opportunity in LF to get comfortable and see how playable he is in the playoffs. I like the idea of having a plus defensive outfield but I'm not really sure how far of a drop off Yordan is from Brantley in LF.
     
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  6. varughese.arun

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    Completely agree...
     
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  7. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    nd the thing that hurts the most and I said this in the other thread that we had the chance to become a legendary dynasty. As shitty as our offense played throughout the postseason we were up with 8 outs left to go at home. Im sorry but you give any team and they take it in a heartbeat. We went from being a dynasty to a question on jeopardy for life now.

    @Htown Stros man i wish you would have been at the game. Go watch the video of when Hinch pulled Grienke and im not sure if you could hear it on tv but everyone was pissed. We saw that Harris was warming up and we knew the game was going to slip away. Literally they were MULTIPLE sections at MMP that were chanting Cole there. **** man. It was almost as if he threw the game there. Just doesnt make any logical sense. Cole looked PISSED in the bullpen and you could tell he wanted the ball.
     
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  8. LabMouse

    LabMouse Member

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    Just put your best player Cole in, let him do the outcome as simply as that, argument for others is just silly.
     
  9. Screaming Fist

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    Yeah, it's not that complicated. I also don't put much stock into the argument that it wouldn't have been wise to put Cole in because he's never appeared in relief professionally before and he would be pitching on two days rest. It's fairly common now for teams to use their best SPs in relief in the postseason even though those SPs rarely, if ever, have done so prior in their careers. I have not come across any evidence that these SPs are less effective when appearing in relief. It was also Cole's bullpen day anyway and he certainly appeared ready and willing to enter the game.
     
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  10. Fyreball

    Fyreball Contributing Member

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    You've summed up my feelings on this 100%. Excellent post, sir.
     

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