Sounds like Woods may be the next Bison Dele: http://www.news-record.com/sports/hardin/hardin30.htm Go with Haywood! Big kid. Hard worker. ------------------ Time is a great teacher-- only problem is it kills all its pupils. PowerbizOnline.com
I hope so Mango, that doc that RichRocket gave and the other things that I've read about Woods makes him sound like a loooooser. Nike, I understand the intuition to get the player that slips b/c of a mental thing but JUST SAY NO. Woods will be sulking and writing kids books in a matter of years. He isn't physical, hell he only rose to the occassion in the Illi game when their front court all fouled out!. This guy is a total pansie. Troy Murphy would be a better pick than Woods, regardless of his speed, just b/c he isn't afraid to get touched. A center that doesn't bang! What's the point?!? ------------------ (===)
Achebe, I'm inclined to agree. But if Rudy and CD get the opportunity to take Woods and jump on it, I'm going to be thrilled, because we all know they measure a lot of factors in whom they draft, including work ethic and attitude. If they feel good about Woods, I'm going to trust them. ------------------
Yeah, but a year and 1/2 ago, they took Kelly and his agent's word that Kelly would maintain the fire when the team signed him to the sweet contract. Words and previous history were in conflict and history proved more to be more accurate than a person's words. Mango ------------------ Get it right or just don't do it! Resistance is futile....you will be assimilated.
If you don't like Woods for other reasons, but let me make this clear. Kelvin Cato is an athletic 7 footer with defensive potential, but often falls for fakes or doesn't try, and has a fat contract. He has not the slightest of an offensive game. Loren Woods is an athletic 7 footer with EXCELLENT defensive skills, and a top rate offensive arsenal for a center. He's got a jumpshot, excellent touch, and is incredibly long. His knock is fire in the belly. <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A59936-2001Mar12.html">Article</a> BUT, read what Lute Olsen and the Arizona staff, as well as his former coach at wake Forest have to say. I'll go look for the article later, but they say Woods' problem is he's a perfectionist. He needs to put on weight, and once he does that, he'll be able to bang. Right now, his body can't handle it. WARNING: DREAMCAST MODE But, how about this scenario. Let's suppose we trade off Kelly Cato and change for Lafrentz/starch. What I would do with the picks, is with our #13, IF he's even around draft Woods. Then with our other 2 picks (Milwaukee/via Orlando) I'd take another big man, either White, Jason Collins, Johnson, Jones, Okafor, Gadzuric, or Boumtje-Boumtje, and then a SF or swingman like Butler, Morris, Jefferson, Prince, or one of those foreigners. Hypothetically, we'll trade KT and with Cato for Radojevic/Lafrentz. For giggles we'll send Walt and free up their pick to Chicago for 1 second round pick and draft a project not affecting the roster now. Olajuwon retires, we don't get Webber, retain Mo, Mooch, Shandon Lafrentz/Woods/Radojevic/Collier Taylor/R. White/Rogers (Lafrentz also can log PF time) Shandon/Langhi/Morris Mobley/[Shandon] Francis/Moochie That's 13 players. 12 man roster and 1 guy on the IL. Also would probably still have cap if desired, could pick up around a 5 mill player. Loads of athleticism, scoring. A pair of excellent defensive big men in Lafrentz/Woods, and a big guy in Radojevic, with decent potential, but injuries (lotto pick a few years back). Ability to spread the floor, with many excellent shooters up front. Two stopper type SFs in Anderson and Morris, and good scorers at PF. While a little soft in the middle, depth to come in waves at opposition, as well as the length to cause nightmares. ------------------ "That's been a lifelong dream of mine." -Vince Carter, after laying it in on a breakaway, much to the Vancouver crowd's displeasure. [This message has been edited by NIKEstrad (edited March 30, 2001).]
Seems to me as if Woods has been playing real well in the tourney. He played a fine game today, and you have to remember it is very difficult to "shine" in college. What did Jordan average for NC...15 ppg or something like that. Woods looks like he could be something at least better than Shawn Bradley. Now thats not the best compliment in the world, but considering Bradley coudl school Cato any day of the week, Woods woudl definietly be an improvement at center. ------------------
Did he play a great game??? He had some good blocks, but I thought Arenas (sp), Gardner and Jefferson were the difference for Arizona. Woods shot like 1-2000 or something (just trying to get Nike to post again in this thread ). ------------------ (===)
Woods is the next Carlos Rogers, except that he has a better J but is as weak as a kitten. Carlos is also not a head case and thrives coming off the bench. In the Illinois Woods got pushed under the basket after every Illinois free throw. He will be eaten alive in the NBA. Whoever drafts will regret it. IMO, Woods is a second round pick in this deep draft.
Achebe-Unfortunately, I missed the game, and my VCR went down on me. (Or I screwed up the setup in a rush). Looking strictly at the box score, positives-Woods played 37 minutes against a physical team, and blocked 3 shots, and only picked up 2 fouls in that time. Shot 5-13, not too pretty. But grabbed 8 rebounds-ALL defensive. That's above average as far as defensive rebounds go. In other center news, Steven Hunter is declaring for the draft. This kid needs weight too, but is also a superathletic 7 footer. A nice 20ish pick, that could develop nicely. With Woods, Chandler, Jones, Curry, Hunter, Johnson, and Dalembert, athletic 7 footers look like they'll be a dime a dozen in this draft. We'll see how things go vs. Duke, and Boozer. ------------------ "That's been a lifelong dream of mine." -Vince Carter, after laying it in on a breakaway, much to the Vancouver crowd's displeasure. [This message has been edited by NIKEstrad (edited April 01, 2001).]
Watched a lot of Pac 10 games, seen Heywood and Johnson a number of times too. I used to be high on the Collins's, because they are very fundamentally sound and have good size. But, as fundamentally sound they are, they are equally weak in quickness. They both look stuck in the mud when opponents come into the lane, and they are only facing college players. I don't think that forebodes well for the NBA careers. Being stuck in the mud can't be said for Woods, Haywood, Johnson or Gadzuric. The Collin's will last a long time in the NBA, but will never be more that 15-minute bit players. I would not spend a sub-15 pick on either of them. I would spend a sub-15 pick on the guys below, but none are sure things: With Woods you also have to consider physical frailty along with mental frailty. Docs did not know how his back was going to respond, though it seems to be holding up so far. Another negative, he is pretty weak (did ya'll see how those Illinois boys pushed him around) and doesn't have much of a post up game. Camby (who I think is a very good player to compare him to), had more of a post-up game at the same stage in their careers. On the plus side, Woods has terrific defensive instincts AND defensive skills, and 7 footers like that are a rare commodity. He also has a good shot facing the basket. I like Johnson a lot. Almost the defensive skills of Woods and a better rebounder. From what I know (not a lot) his mind and dedication seem more suited for the rigors of the NBA. Overall, a notch below Woods in offensive and defensive ability, but it takes a lot more than ability to be a consistent contributor. Haywood is risky, but he has the height, bulk and quickness (though not as quick as Woods) to be a good NBA center. Some players get to be better foul shooters and develop a low post game, others don't. I would take a chance on Heywood, he has much more athletic ability than Montross, Purdue and some of the others guys people have mentioned. I "might" also be willing to spend a 15 pick on Gadzuric. He is quick and hustles, even if he is raw. He sure tore up Woods and the rest of Arizona the last time they played. Oh, I might as well rank them in terms of my draft interest. I will say at the onset I would rather go for up side over just being a decent contributer IF I have to choose between the two: 1. Haywood (note: he could fall quickly to 3) 2. Woods 3. Johnson 4. Gadzuric 5. Jas C. 6. Jer. C. [This message has been edited by Desert Scar (edited April 01, 2001).]
Desert Scar-good post. Woods IMO is a very tough player to clone-I see Jermaine O'Neal/Camby in him. As I've said a lot, his defense is Garnett-like IMO Lengthy player with a skinny frame, his post game lacks, but he has a very nice face up game, which Camby lacks, and O'Neal's doesn't extend quite as far on the floor. If we have a pair of 20ish picks (Orlando/Milwaukee), I'm almost sure that Rudy and co. will take either Jones or Johnson if they're available, because they are seniors, even if we were to get a center (Woods, Haywood, Ming, Chandler, Curry, Diop never know about the lotto balls) with our now assured lotto pick. Gadzuric, I feel should go before our later picks, but after our own pick. The more I watch Gadzuric, the more I like him. If his knees weren't such a huge question, he'd be a great pick. Good physically, tough player, good rebounder, good defender position-wise (not so much a shot-blocking threat), and hustling skills. ------------------ "That's been a lifelong dream of mine." -Vince Carter, after laying it in on a breakaway, much to the Vancouver crowd's displeasure.
I hope the Rockets can somehow land Haywood. He's a good humble kid (tell me that doesn't count for something) who works hard. He has improved every year. Hey, this is coming from a Duke fan! ------------------ Time is a great teacher-- only problem is it kills all its pupils. PowerbizOnline.com
Seeing Woods go against Battier was a preclude to both of their future NBA careers. I see them both 3s in the bigs. Battier has a nice inside / outside game, while Woods has a limited but very effective outside game and an inside game that will work best against smaller 3s. Woods reminds me a bit of Danny Manning, though with less skills and with more "head case". Woods' passing from the perimeter is excellent, his best skill imo. Woods' defense shows that he is a bit of a tweener (like our own Los). He is too slow to guard a 3 and way too weak to guard a starting NBA 4/5. From the strength of his March Madness showing, Woods may be a borderline lottery pick. This will be a good thing for the Rocks, if Woods is off the board before their pick. Battier is another story. He is a real gamer. He plays well and hard at both ends of the court. He may not be a star in the NBA, but he should be a solid NBA starter with a long career. Unfortunately, he will be long gone by the Rocks' pick.
Woods is better than I gave him credit. That ambidexterity in the paint is a wonderful advantage. He reminds me of Ralph Sampson. ------------------ Time is a great teacher-- only problem is it kills all its pupils. PowerbizOnline.com
I like Loren Woods , I think He was Tim Duncan's backup , So he might have learned a few things . ------------------ Mark Cuban who? The Rockets own the Mavericks
The only thing he learned at Wake was how to run away from high expectations...that being said, he did impress me in the championship game, but overall for the tournament he did not play as well as his stat sheet might say. The main problem I have with the guy is he doesn't go up and get balls that he should, and this goes back to the whole 'soft' issue, which is definitely an issue. However, he is going to be the most versatile center in the draft, and if he's there at 13 I think he would be a good pickup, especially if CD can find a bruiser at the 4 to protect him (Ben Wallace comes to mind). Detroit needs a center, right? Maybe package Cato and the pick they owe us (and maybe another one) for Wallace. Of course they have had their share of center without a pulse (ie Montross), so they might not want another one... ------------------ P.S. This is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R were eliminated.
I'm siding with Nike. Woods will be a comer. He is 25 pounds from a top five pick. But will slip maybe to double digits. But make no mistake, he has more intestinal fortitude than Cato has complaints. My dream cast (since someone mentioned) is Battier and Woods in a Rocket's uni. I do like Curry. And Hay-hay is not far away. This summer's "pick-me-please-weekend-sweat" is deep in multi-position representation , thick in a variety of styles/body shapes, one of the best swingman drafts ever, possibly the largest volume of quality (and semi-quality) bigmen in a decade and probably the most exciting crop in four or five years. ------------------
Reading the article that Achebe posted makes Woods seem kind of like a Rasheed Wallace crossed with a Joe Barry Carroll (Barely Cares). The last thing I'd want on this team is an emotional malcontent. ------------------ "So you say you want some intelligent responses? I say give me something intelligent to respond to." -- Dimwits beware, B-Ball freak tells it like it is. Sing it bro! [This message has been edited by Dr of Dunk (edited April 04, 2001).]
For those who do not know much about him, Ken Johnson is Kelvin Cato with heart. He is a senior who, despite the opportunity to be drafted, petitioned the NBA for an additional year of college eligibility due to a learning disorder. He is class through and through and would fit well on the Rockets. His game is still raw (he only started playing late in HS) but he is still improving. Since he stepped onto the court at Ohio State, he has been the best shot blocker in the Big Ten and the last two years has been at worst one of the top three shot blockers in the nation. This year, he added a solid offensive game (esp a nice jump hook) despite being double and triple teamed and not getting many shots. He is not the most intense guy you will see but he will give you his all, will have no off the court problems and is a class act. Due to his lack of offense, he probably will not be a star (I see him maxing out at 15 pts/game in the NBA) but he will be an exceptional role player and would fit well with the Rockets, with or without Webber. I would compare him to either a Cato with heart or a poor man's Kenyon Martin. I would be surprised if he goes before the Rockets first pick and he probably will be available with their second and third picks as he is not sexy because he doesn't score a lot of points. But he seems like the type of player Rudy would love (other than he can't shoot the 3). Oh, and no Shaq syndrome here as he averages 70% or so from the line. If he is available at any of the three Rockets picks, I jump on him, no questions asked. Does that help? ------------------
Woods does not have to be a Shaq or Malone; he just has to guard them. The pro game is so much more physical than college. I forsee a diificult transition. What if he is the next Camby guaranteed? How many teams would waste a top ten pick in a deep draft on second tier NBA starter? ------------------
