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WOOD: PF versus Center

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Rocket River, Feb 22, 2021.

  1. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Aren't we in the positionless basketball era anyway

    Rocket River
    :D
     
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  2. sydmill

    sydmill Member

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    I agree with the sentiment that some of the positions many of us grew up with have changed. However, I see positions breaking down differently. I think there are point guards (1s), wings (2s and 3s) and posts (4s and 5s). With so many teams playing small there is a overlap (like Tatum, who is, IMHO, a 3 but plays the 4). In my mind Wood is a post. With teams being able to cross match I don't put as much stock in the quicker than most centers argument. If he is feasting on a slow footed defender then that team will switch a more nimble player onto him. That he can play either the 4 or 5 helps because he can then try and exploit the best match up on any given night. The obvious drawback is that when the Rockets play the few dinosaur big men that are around, Wood is at a disadvantage down low.

    TL;DR: Positions dont matter as much anymore. That Wood can play either position gives the Rockets flexibility in match ups as well as in team building.
     
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  3. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member

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    I think in 1994, he'd be a fantastic power forward, back when power forwards weren't dinosaurs.
     
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  4. Derp McFlopsky

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    @Rocket River I responded to you in the other thread before I saw this. For the sake of repeating myself, I think in a lineup of Wall-Oladipo-Tate-Wood-Allen is 4 plus defenders and 1 guy teams are going to pick on because Wood is not keeping up with playmakers on the perimeter consistently. Then on offense, unless you have Wood running PnR with Allen you've relegated him to stretch 4 duties...essentially taking your only all-star out of his element.

    The Wood y Allen PnR would've been interesting.
     
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  5. DCkid

    DCkid Contributing Member

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    I still like him as a 4. With the way he is a built, I just don't think him playing the 5 makes us adaptable enough to allow us to matchup with various types of opposing lineups.

    At the same time, I agree with the above that we don't want a traditional 5 to pair with him that is no outside threat, who clogs the lane on offense. I would actually be very much in favor of at least having one center like that on our bench for flexibility and insurance, but I just don't think there's a lot of space for those types of center anymore on starting 5s.

    My ideal 5 to pair with Wood would be 1.) Bigger and/or stronger than Wood 2.) a slightly above average rim protector and/or rebounder 3.) A mid-30% 3pt shooter. I'd be fine with that at a minimum, assuming we would invest more of our hopes and dreams (and money) on backcourt players/wings.

    Funny enough, Boogie actually fits most of the above criteria...unfortunate he can barely move or get off the ground anymore.
     
    #25 DCkid, Feb 22, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2021
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  6. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

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    Regardless if he’s a “4” or “5” , I agree that he needs a strong rebounding big next to him .

    we don’t need wood to add 30 lbs to be able to more effectively guard big post 5’s . We need to add another player in the frontcourt that can share the floor with him and either pick that guy up or take turns with Wood .

    a guy like Julius Randle could be a great fit .

    we need a big that is a legit 240+ next to him tho . Offensive skill is gravy . Good defense is key .
     
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  7. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member

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    I respectfully disagree. In the most successful NBA offenses today, 3s and 4s do nearly identical tasks because versatility, spacing, and quickness are at a premium. The rule changes of the recent past have also made it very inefficient to "post" up in general. It is not as easy as it used to be to take advantage of size, as we have been seeing for years as teams try and try to post up Gordon, Harden, Tucker. That is one of many reasons why I think it is massively intelligent to go with versatility and quickness at your Forward spots, instead of the PF dinosaurs of eons past.

    If you can play the 4, you should be able to play the 3 too, because the pipe is likely going to be filled by an elite roller. Therefore, can your forwards operate in open space? Good luck finding a "post" that can handle defending in space. It's the reason PJ is so damn valued in the NBA. I'd say the one exception is If you play with Lebron because of his size and ability to cover holes most teams couldn't withstand. Today, your "4" NEEDS to be able to defend in space. Lateral quickness is paramount, and that's why it makes more sense to group forwards together, as opposed to 4/5s like it's the 90s.

    If you look across the league at mediocre teams, a ton of them are held back IMO because they are trying to play a bigger PF next to a rim clogging C.

    Atlanta - Collins/Clint
    Pelicans - Zion/Adams
    Kings - Bagley/Holmes
    Knicks - Randle/Robinson
    etc...

    It is not impossible, but I find it to be an absurd mountain to climb because of the spatial disadvantages, and the issue of overall quickness and versatility.

    But go look at the Jazz, Clippers, Nets, Sixers, Bucks. In my opinion, The Bucks and Sixers should be considered as pretenders too, because that glaring Simmons/Giannis powerball stuff gets snuffed out in the playoffs. Spacing is king.

    2018 Rockets:

    CP3
    Harden
    Ariza
    Tucker
    Clint

    (Who was the "post" here outside of Clint Capela?) It's two forwards, interchangeable with Luc. Versatility and spacing is everything. Don't clog the paint for C-Wood. Don't kill his game like that.
     
    #27 RudyTBag, Feb 22, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2021
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  8. sydmill

    sydmill Member

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    I think there is a lot correct here. I guess where I see a difference between the 3 and 4 is I see the 3 as more of a perimeter player than a 4. But I dont have any great arguments controverting this post.
     
  9. csc177

    csc177 Member

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    Wood and Collins at the 5 and 4 respectively. SIGN ME UP
     
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  10. banzai

    banzai Contributing Member

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    5’s will have to guard Wood on the perimeter. The lane will be wide open for Wall, EG, and KPJr. when they call him up. Wood is a deadly 3pt shooter and is only getting better. Then you can get an athletic 4 like precious or even smaller with Tate. Depending on the matchups that night.
     
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  11. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member

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    I don't think what you are saying is necessarily wrong either. Right now some of the best "PFs" are Lebron, Simmons, Antekoumpo... More size, more interior PFs that you speak of. You build around your best player regardless.

    That said, I'd probably have Zion at the 5 with some quick, lanky forwards. That, and I'm not thrilled with the idea of constricting Christian Wood's space, nor forcing him to defend in space when he has shown some interesting flashes as a backline defender.
     
  12. Dr of Dunk

    Dr of Dunk Clutch Crew

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    Most 5's aren't going to be able to defend what Wood is capable of on offense. He can score inside, on pick and rolls, take it outside, take it out to the 3, put the ball on the floor and drive, etc. Most 5's also aren't going to completely expose whatever defensive liabilities he has other than the really good 5's they may put on him like Jokic (but then he clowns a lot of players).
     
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  13. MaxRider

    MaxRider Member

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    need 2021 version
     
  14. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    Not with Wall running the team.

    There is only one position that matters, his.
     
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  15. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    Aaron Gordon or Larry Nance would be my choices, especially over Randle.
     
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  16. sydmill

    sydmill Member

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    Why wouldnt the other team just stick their power forward on Wood then if he is causing their defense such problems? Just curious why they wouldn't do that? They could go small or just live with the speed advantage precious or Tate would have on their 5.
     
  17. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

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    Last year Wood played the 4 and the 5 as backup behind Drummond/Blake Griffin/Markieff Morris & others.

    per 82games.com
    http://www.82games.com/2021/20HOU19.HTM

    Wood
    Season......position.......% of time at...........eFG%..........net pts......PER.........Counter Opponent 48 min
    .......................................position for team.......................................................Production by Position PER

    19/20.............PF....................22%...................... .581..............+37..........24.2......................21.4.........................
    19/20..............C....................19%....................... .661............. +29..........37.4......................24.4........................


    Season......position.......% of time at............eFG%............net pts......PER.........Counter Opponent 48 min
    .......................................position for team...........................................................Production by Position PER

    20/21...............PF......................0%......................................................................................................................
    20/21...............C.......................40%.......................565...............+52...........29.3......................21.0.....................

    Summary, Detroit numbers mostly as backup.......with Houston this season mostly as starting center.
    Difference can be attributed to Silas system and proper number of 3-point shooting threats; which
    Detroit lacked.

    I feel, (again personal opinion), Wood gets pushed around too much under the rim by bigger Centers night
    in and night out during the season. Playoffs will be a quick sprint marathon (if that makes sense), but
    for greater stakes.......making it worth it.

    Trying to build up Tucker trade value has taken away from the opportunities for Wood at PF; but let’s see
    after the trade deadline. If the Rockets get a temporary center back?

    Harden having to play less defense helped him score more.......having Wood concentrating mostly at PF
    will help him get the 27 points per game next season I project.





     
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  18. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    Teams have tried to do that THIS season but Wood can still burn 4's that try to defend him on the perimeter.

    Wood is a legit threat to put ball on the floor and finish at rim even from the arc because he is such a dangerous 3ball shooter.

    And Rockets can always take advantage of mismatch of the opposing teams 5 on Tate or another of Rockets small ball players.

    Its pick your poison.

    Having JA play alongside Wood just makes Rockets easier to defend, either sagging off JA to double the ball or zoning JA so he doesnt get ball in the pivot.

    JA would have been great asset for Rockets, coming off the bench or starting when Wood out.

    Not necessarily playing alongside Wood.
     
  19. TimDuncanDonaut

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    To me some of it is on the defensive side. Since Wood is valuable on offense, I want a big, who's not afraid to be in the paint contesting and not afraid to pick up fouls.

    I don't mind Wood at the 5, if we get a banger 4. Or Wood at 4, with a more traditional big at the 5.
     
    #39 TimDuncanDonaut, Feb 22, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2021
  20. RHU525

    RHU525 Member

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    We should play him at point guard. Need put him at the spot that gives us the best chance to lose.
     

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