Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

[Woj] Mavericks, Rockets have discussed Rajon Rondo trade

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by mikol13, Dec 17, 2014.

Tags:

Page 25 of 41

anchel Member

Joined:

Jan 7, 2010

Messages:

3,877

Likes Received:

1,335

larsv8 said: ↑

A Case for Rajon Rondo

Rondo seems to be a hot topic with the trade rumors and a lot of folks seem to be planted in the firmly uninterested camp and understandably so. I, however, am in the camp that believes we should jump all over this and let me make my case.

1.) This is a classic buy-low scenario

With the amount of talent at the PG position and in the NBA and Rondo's impending free agency status, there frankly aren't many teams out there who would be interested in trading for Rondo. Dallas and Houston seem to be the only teams with much interest which has created an opportunity to trade for an elite player with an Artificially Low Trade Value, IE a value that does not match his caliber as a player. While it is still early, Dallas seems to be the front runner with an offer of Brandon Wright and a perhaps 2 low first round picks. The Rockets could potentially sweep in and top this offer quite easily, while still not giving up very many assets. Opportunities like this do not happen very often and a team that jumps on this will be that much better than the competition.

Rondo hasn't been great, but I have no reason to believe he can't drastically improve as he gets better teammates and back into his groove.

2.) There is little risk here

If we trade for Rondo and it doesn't work out, he is a free agent at the end of the season, we can let him go and use our cap space on another free agent. Sure it sucks to lose the Pelicans pick and minor prospects, but how much value does that really have to us? Is that really going to set us back that far? Its more likely those pieces would have to be given away anyway if we wanted to free up cap space in the offseason, ala the Marcus Morris and Pat Patterson deals. I suppose there is a risk we miss out on other potential deals at the deadline, but who could realistically be available? Perhaps Goran Dragic, but again, he is a free agent at the end of the year and we can still go that route if we wanted if Rondo doesn't work out. IMHO a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

3.) Waiting for the perfect player could cost us Beverley

While it may not seem like it, the Rockets are in an holding pattern until they can add the third major star. They are adamantly not adding long term salary to maintain the flexibility to add another big name piece. So far, the flexibility route has cost us Marcus Morris, Patrick Patterson and Chandler Parsons. The next person we could potentially lose is Patrick Beverley who will enter free agency this next off season, and Terrence Jones/Dmo the year after that. If we strike out AGAIN, and Beverley's price tag is too high, it is highly likely that Morey lets him walk, just like Parsons. Adding that third star now gets us out of that bind and will allow us to tie up more of our money long term.

4.) Finally getting that third piece will open the flood gates on spending

Are you tired of watching 35+ year old vets (Garcia/Terry) and raw D-leaguers (Daniels/Johnson/Dorsey/Black) play crucial minutes? This happens because we are trying to maintain that "flexibility". With Rondo locked in we would finally be able to start using our exceptions and add legit depth rather than these untested or old band-aids. We could also start trading for guys on longer term deals like the Ersan Ilyasova's, Kevin Martins, Jeff Greens, Corey Brewer's, etc. that rebuilding teams are trying to shed. I don't know about you guys but I don't want to see Nick Johnson try and guard Ty Lawson. I don't want to see Johnson on the court for another two years, when he has something to actually contribute.

5.) Rajon Rondo is in his prime

Rajon Rondo is 29 years old and in his prime. If we traded for him and resigned him, we would have him from 29-33 years old which is probably means he will stay about as good as he is now. He was never really an athleticism guy, more of a length and basketball IQ guy, which are less likely to fade over time. No, he is not as good as he was a couple years ago when he peaked, but he is still damn good.

Take a look at some of his game highlight videos below. Watch all the easy looks and open shots he gets for Olynk and Bass. Ask your self if Dmo and Tjones and makes those moves and cuts while Harden rests on the bench.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OJ6TlPhl3U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNpBYxUS-Gw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNpBYxUS-Gw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PcbKIGZA3k

6.) The Rockets desperately need someone to lighten the load on Harden

Harden has been nothing short of spectacular, but we can't keep riding him like this. 38 minutes a game, 100% effort on defense and setting up every offensive possession is going drastically shorten his career, not to mention he is going to be completely worn out by the time the playoffs arrive. Rondo is a guy who can give you that, who can get open shots for guys while Harden is on the bench or needs to catch his breath. It has gotten to the point for me that I cringe whenever I see Ariza try and dribble the ball or Beverley try and create something on his own. We literally have no one else who can create from the perimeter. We have been lucky that Harden hasn't missed any games yet, but when that happens that weaknesses is going to show up BIG TIME.

We have got to reduce Harden's minutes and body stress and Rondo is a guy who can help with that. We could keep Harden on the bench longer. We could hold him out instead of having to play through injury. We can extend his career and avoid another nightmare Yao/McGrady situation.

I think people get too hung up on imagining Rondo alongside of Harden instead of focusing on our rotations for a full 48 minutes of basketball. There are plenty of minutes, plenty of shots, and plenty of games.

6.) Rondo has shown he can play with other high usage guys

Rondo played alongside Paul Pierce who, in my opinion, is one of the closest comparisons to James Harden as a player, and the Celtics were highly successful doing it. I personally believe people put way way too much emphasis on fit and not nearly enough on talent. You can't possibly believe the Rockets would be worse if Rondo was taking up the minutes that Isiah Cannan or Nick Johnson or Francisco Garcia have been playing.

7.) Rondo's weaknesses are overstated

Yes, Rondo has glaring weaknesses.
Yes, he has low scoring efficiency
Yes, he has a low free throw accuracy
Yes, he has a low three point accuracy

But he can also be a low volume shooter where those types of issues won't be a big deal. Try and imagine what he could be on this team and how his skill set could used to help. People seem to think the role he has played in Boston is exactly what he would play here and they aren't being creative enough to see how much he could help out in the big picture.

I see a staggering of minutes, where Harden/Rondo on the court is limited. I see rotating pairs of our two wings with our two elite post players. That is how I envision it.

8.) Rondo has shown he can be elite defensively

Even if his offense is a total disaster, Rondo has been elite defensively most of his entire career. Sure he hasn't been as good this year, but there is a common trend that when a team becomes more reliant on one player for their entire offense, that players defensive intensity goes down. I have no doubt that if Rondo were to come here in a complimentary role, both his and Harden's defense would pick up tremendously.

Furthermore, Rondo is one of the best rebounders at his position, which is something this team needs quite a bit (we rank 23rd). He is also a ball hawk with a high propensity for steals, which is always helpful

The idea of putting out Beverley/Rondo/Ariza/Howard for key stops makes me salivate.

9.) I don't want him to end up in Dallas.

I'll come out and say it. I don't want there to be any chance in hell that we lose the Mavericks in the playoffs. Zero/zilch/none. I can't stand the idea of looking at their smug ass owner grinning with the Rockets walking off the court in defeat. I want that franchise to fade away into obscurity with pretty boy Parsons miserable in the middle of it.

10.) Rondo plays big when it matters.

The guy is a competitor, BIG TIME. He has tons of playoff experience and comes up huge in big games. He is not going to shrink like Jeremy "I have the confidence of a ten year old girl" Lin when the game is on the line. He is a WINNER and we need that.

11.) What our offer could look like?

Now look, I am not saying we should give up the farm, but I can't see how anyone could pass on Rondo if a mediocre offer gets it done.

According the CBA, the trade rules would require maximum incoming salary of 150% of the outgoing salary plus 100k. By my calculations, with Rondo's salary being 12.9 million, the Rockets would need to send out roughly 8.5m in salary to make the trade work under the CBA rules. I think almost any trade needs to start with Kostas Papanikolau or Jason Terry just to make the numbers work. The bare minimum I could come up with, that I think is better that Dallas's deal would be:

Jason Terry - 5.8m
Joey Dorsey - 948k
Clint Capella - 1.18m
Isiah Canaan - 816k
NOP 2015 #1 pick

Total - 8.8m

Now when you look at that offer, there is maybe one or two guys who are rotation players and we are talking about 7-8th best players on the team. Morey has shown he can pull these 7th and 8th best guys out of a hat and replace them. Its much much harder to nab players of Rondo's caliber.

For me, that is worth giving up for a potential all star level PG. Lets assume we also nab Brewer (or better yet, how about bring Kevin Martin back?) for our trade exception and a second round pick. Our new depth chart would look like this:

Rondo / Beverley / Johnson
Harden / Brewer / Daniels
Ariza / Papanikolau
Dmo / Jones
Howard / Black

To me, that is better than what we have now. Anyway, just keep an open mind.
Click to expand...

Good post, but I don't think Rondo is going to be as cheap as you guess... I bet Ainge is asking for one of Dmo/TJ + pelicans pick, at the least.

The most important topic with RR is the structure of our offense.
I have serious doubts that he would fit well in our current offense. BUT, with Dmo entering as starter and Rondo instead of Pat, the Rockets shoudl and would adapt their game to that new lineup. And we must have in mind that you don't get Rondo for NOW, but for 4-5 entire seasons.

Another factor it is the likleyhood of getting Dragic, and its price. Morey knows all that.

My opinion is that I trust Daryl. If we get Rondo, I'm in with getting Rondo. If we pass, I'm with Daryl too.

#481 anchel, Dec 18, 2014

Rox>Mavs Contributing Member

Joined:

Aug 28, 2010

Messages:

2,560

Likes Received:

1,209

Question: does anyone know if teams intentionally foul rondo now? I thought it doesn't make sense to intentionally foul if the shooter is even slightly above 50%. Like if howard could be 55% from the line coaches wouldn't employ this tactic.

#482 Rox>Mavs, Dec 18, 2014
justtxyank Contributing Member

Joined:

Jul 7, 2005

Messages:

42,752

Likes Received:

39,420

Rox>Mavs said: ↑

Question: does anyone know if teams intentionally foul rondo now? I thought it doesn't make sense to intentionally foul if the shooter is even slightly above 50%. Like if howard could be 55% from the line coaches wouldn't employ this tactic.
Click to expand...

Why bother fouling him when you are going to beat his sorry team anyway?

Just makes the game longer.

#483 justtxyank, Dec 18, 2014
J.R. Member

Joined:

Jun 30, 2008

Messages:

108,239

Likes Received:

158,328

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Whatever Lakers were offering for Rajon Rondo and Jeff Green - I was told Jordan Hill and a first-rounder at least - Celtics declined.</p>— Jeff Zillgitt (@JeffZillgitt) <a href="https://twitter.com/JeffZillgitt/status/545676080921985025">December 18, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

#484 J.R., Dec 18, 2014
justtxyank Contributing Member

Joined:

Jul 7, 2005

Messages:

42,752

Likes Received:

39,420

J.R. said: ↑

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Whatever Lakers were offering for Rajon Rondo and Jeff Green - I was told Jordan Hill and a first-rounder at least - Celtics declined.</p>— Jeff Zillgitt (@JeffZillgitt) <a href="https://twitter.com/JeffZillgitt/status/545676080921985025">December 18, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Click to expand...

Man!

I saw JR had the last post and I thought DRAGIC!

So deflated...

#485 justtxyank, Dec 18, 2014
JHarden713 Member

Joined:

Jan 30, 2014

Messages:

1,341

Likes Received:

227

DREAM ON! said: ↑

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Sacramento's discussed Rondo w/ Celtics in past, but Boston's asking price is too high for Kings to re-start talks now, sources tell Yahoo.</p>— Adrian Wojnarowski (@WojYahooNBA) <a href="https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/545674306676854784">December 18, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Click to expand...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEiq84XKuhA

#486 JHarden713, Dec 18, 2014
Commodore Contributing Member

Joined:

Dec 15, 2007

Messages:

31,418

Likes Received:

14,976

Fullcourt said: ↑

Watch Morey not even be interested in Rondo, just acting in cahoots with Boston to make Dallas give up more.
Click to expand...

I can definitely see this being the case given the relationships of the involved parties

#487 Commodore, Dec 18, 2014

NL Rocket Member

Joined:

Aug 1, 2012

Messages:

4,382

Likes Received:

103

LOL @ Lakers offering Jordan Hill :grin:

#488 NL Rocket, Dec 18, 2014
Epz Member

Joined:

Jul 2, 2013

Messages:

23

Likes Received:

1

Hill can't even be traded till the 15th of next month.

#489 Epz, Dec 18, 2014
Ziggy QUEEN ANON

Joined:

Jun 11, 1999

Messages:

36,871

Likes Received:

13,266

Smart of Ainge to leak Randle. He wants Randle, the Lakers aren't stupid. He's hoping Kobe catches wind and storms into management's office (and I mean management, not Kupchak, he'll go over his head I'm sure) demanding they get Rondo. That's another 5 open shots for Kobe per game.

#490 Ziggy, Dec 18, 2014
iJHolmes Member

Joined:

Dec 29, 2012

Messages:

3,439

Likes Received:

324

Meh, not too excited on rondo, i acutally like the BEV and Terry with Caanan as a 3rd option. With the addition of rondo, how does that even work anymore?

or do we include Caanan or terry on the trade and risk it coming back to bite us in the ass like we did dragic?

#491 iJHolmes, Dec 18, 2014
KlutchQT Contributing Member

Joined:

Jun 2, 2013

Messages:

9,156

Likes Received:

4,288

Epz said: ↑

Hill can't even be traded till the 15th of next month.
Click to expand...

That was this month.

#492 KlutchQT, Dec 18, 2014
Epz Member

Joined:

Jul 2, 2013

Messages:

23

Likes Received:

1

Jordan Hill, who signed a two-year, $18-million contract over the summer, cannot be traded until Jan. 15. In Hill's case, he received a raise greater than 20%, triggering the longer trade restriction, which applies only to players signed while their team is over the NBA's $63.1-million salary cap.

Got this from the LA times.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/laker...lakers-trade-restrictions-20141216-story.html

#493 Epz, Dec 18, 2014

DREAM ON! Member

Joined:

Sep 29, 2013

Messages:

1,394

Likes Received:

70

Epz said: ↑

Jordan Hill, who signed a two-year, $18-million contract over the summer, cannot be traded until Jan. 15. In Hill's case, he received a raise greater than 20%, triggering the longer trade restriction, which applies only to players signed while their team is over the NBA's $63.1-million salary cap.

Got this from the LA times.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/laker...lakers-trade-restrictions-20141216-story.html
Click to expand...

Correct

#494 DREAM ON!, Dec 18, 2014
J.R. Member

Joined:

Jun 30, 2008

Messages:

108,239

Likes Received:

158,328

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Perceived as sellers, Celtics have received inquiries about Jeff Green from Clippers, Pelicans, Grizzlies but Cs not interested in offers.</p>— Jeff Zillgitt (@JeffZillgitt) <a href="https://twitter.com/JeffZillgitt/status/545683061137231873">December 18, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

#495 J.R., Dec 18, 2014
Crashlanded19 Member

Joined:

Jun 27, 2012

Messages:

7,824

Likes Received:

2,296

Epz said: ↑

Hill can't even be traded till the 15th of next month.
Click to expand...

lol..what?

#496 Crashlanded19, Dec 18, 2014
Fyreball Contributing Member

Joined:

Apr 8, 2009

Messages:

14,962

Likes Received:

12,262

iJHolmes said: ↑

Meh, not too excited on rondo, i acutally like the BEV and Terry with Caanan as a 3rd option. With the addition of rondo, how does that even work anymore?

or do we include Caanan or terry on the trade and risk it coming back to bite us in the ass like we did dragic?
Click to expand...

Do you actually believe trading Jason Terry or Isiah Canaan would come back to bite us?? Terry is 36 years old, and is only here because his contract is incredibly trade-friendly. Canaan, while young and showing promise, would have to improve by light years on the defensive end to ever be considered as a real option to be the starter on a championship team. If all we're required to give up for Rajon Rondo is Canaan, Terry, and perhaps one of our PFs, you do it. I think some of you really underestimate just how big of an impact a 48 minute PG rotation of Rondo and Beverley would have on the defensive end in a 7 game series. That's enough to wear ANYBODY out, including the likes of Conley, Paul, Parker, Curry, etc.

#497 Fyreball, Dec 18, 2014
cloudng8 Contributing Member

Joined:

Jun 23, 2011

Messages:

631

Likes Received:

28

Fyreball said: ↑

Do you actually believe trading Jason Terry or Isiah Canaan would come back to bite us?? Terry is 36 years old, and is only here because his contract is incredibly trade-friendly. Canaan, while young and showing promise, would have to improve by light years on the defensive end to ever be considered as a real option to be the starter on a championship team. If all we're required to give up for Rajon Rondo is Canaan, Terry, and perhaps one of our PFs, you do it. I think some of you really underestimate just how big of an impact a 48 minute PG rotation of Rondo and Beverley would have on the defensive end in a 7 game series. That's enough to wear ANYBODY out, including the likes of Conley, Paul, Parker, Curry, etc.
Click to expand...

Agreed, we go through this every year with our fans having serious attachment to our players. The types of looks that Howard would get as well will be huge.

#498 cloudng8, Dec 18, 2014

YOLO Member

Joined:

Apr 16, 2012

Messages:

46,688

Likes Received:

44,885

Fyreball said: ↑

Do you actually believe trading Jason Terry or Isiah Canaan would come back to bite us?? Terry is 36 years old, and is only here because his contract is incredibly trade-friendly. Canaan, while young and showing promise, would have to improve by light years on the defensive end to ever be considered as a real option to be the starter on a championship team. If all we're required to give up for Rajon Rondo is Canaan, Terry, and perhaps one of our PFs, you do it. I think some of you really underestimate just how big of an impact a 48 minute PG rotation of Rondo and Beverley would have on the defensive end in a 7 game series. That's enough to wear ANYBODY out, including the likes of Conley, Paul, Parker, Curry, etc.
Click to expand...

playoffs basketball defense at its finest right there.

#499 YOLO, Dec 18, 2014
treyk3 Member

Joined:

Jun 26, 2008

Messages:

8,717

Likes Received:

16,052

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Dallas is emerging as the frontrunner in pursuit of a deal to acquire Boston's Rajon Rondo, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.</p>— Adrian Wojnarowski (@WojYahooNBA) <a href="https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/545697099644669953">December 18, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

#500 treyk3, Dec 18, 2014

(You must log in or sign up to post here.)

Page 25 of 41

Share This Page