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WOJ - Harden wanted Wall over WB

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by ThatBoyNick, Dec 3, 2020.

  1. ParaSolid

    ParaSolid Member

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    Damn I just posted in another thread that I thought harden was out. I guess not! I find it hard to believe that harden and Russ are still so close, yet harden ships him out?
     
  2. dc rock

    dc rock Contributing Member

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  3. Shark44

    Shark44 71er
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    I've always tried to find the positive in the situation or the good in someone (a curse my mother left me with). WB had spurts, but just wasn't a good fit. He needs to be the Alpha and it will be interesting to see how he and Beal work together. From all indications, Wall is the healthiest he's been in his career and it seems he has something to prove. He's reunited with his Kentucky comrade in Cousins. Cousins has had a streak of bad injury luck, like Wall he's seems to be mended and ready to play. If those two can bring it with Harden that's a solid, if not phenomenal BIG 3. Add a developing Wood, a less tasked PJ, a revived Gordon and a House that doesn't set itself on fire--you've got the makings of a really good 7-man rotation. If 1-2 of the younger guys can make a leap forward we'll have a very good team.

    It's a 72 game season, so yes guys will miss some time, but hopefully load management reduces the stress on Wall, Cousins and maybe Gordon as well. I didn't see this kind of off-season coming and must admit its been fun to see the new guy (Stones) work the phones and make things happen. You have to admit, he's not afraid to pull the trigger and most of his shots have been dead on. As fans we'll always say should've, could've, would've... its the nature of fandom. But for the pile of s*** Morey left in front of the burning house, our new GM has managed to put the fire out before it got bad and sack up that s*** and ship it to DC.

    Now the ball is being handed off to Silas/staff, it's going to be their turn to shape these new guys into a cohesive, efficient and effective team. Can we win a championship with these guys? A lot of unknowns, so its tough to say, but I sure do love it when the pundits bet against us. Can't wait for the games!
     
  4. Imanimal

    Imanimal Member

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  5. aelliott

    aelliott Contributing Member

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    Correct and we've had some of the best offenses in the history of the game over the last few seasons.

    Exactly how many contested 3's do you think Harden takes per game? Him taking contested 3's isn't the problem.

    He rarely shoots a 3 when very "tightly guarded" (0 to 2 ft). He attempts 0.1 very tightly guarded 3's per game. That's about 1 attempt every 10 games.

    The NBA classifies it as "tightly guarded" when the defender is 2 to 4 feet away. Harden takes 4.4 of those 3s per game but he also shoots 33.7% on those shots. If he replaced those with open 3s and shot 40% on those shots then the difference would be and additional 0.83 pts per game.

    That's not really a difference maker.

    All that matters is how efficiently you do something. If you can run the same play every trip down the floor and you're uber efficient then you just keep running it.

    Harden's never going to run off endless screens ala Ray Allen. That's not his game.

    Harden is incredible efficient. Why are we trying to change what he does? In the Laker series he averaged 30/game on a ridiculous 67% TS%. Is our big plan to have Harden never miss a shot? How much more efficient do you expect that he can be?

    Harden averaged 34.3 pts/game last year while taking 22.4 shots per game on a 62.6 TS%. Instead of advocating to change something that we are already crazy efficient at, maybe we change things around the other 78 shots per game where we weren't so good. Fixing what's broken rather than changing the best thing that we do seems like a smarter play.


    I'd expect Harden to play the way that's been so effective for him. Hopefully the addition of Wood and Cousins will provide additional options and ways to score.

    The bottom line is that the guys not named Harden have to be able to put the ball in the basket. If teams can play two defenders on Harden and we can't make them pay for it then we will continue to have issues. Most teams would welcome having a player go unguarded.
     
  6. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Even if Wall is healthy enough to play 30 min a night - are you going to get a guy that shoots 30% 3 pointers or 35%? That's going to determine a lot of whether or not he is an upgrade over westbrook.
     
  7. RedRedemption

    RedRedemption Contributing Member

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    I don't care anymore.

    I just want to see this team on the court. We are still on the brink of this entire organization being trash for the next two decades until Fertitta dies or something.

    But Harden is still on the team. The closer we get to tipoff, the more opportunity we have to hopefully convince James that maybe Houston is still right for him.
     
  8. dmoneybangbang

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    Unfortunately they ain't handing out prizes for that.....

    Of course it isnt THE problem but just an example.

    When does the NBA start measuring the distance? I'm not trying to be a smart ass but the whole point of a step back is to create distance.

    Perhaps in a vacuum or simulation.... The problem is you don't have all the variables figured out.

    How do you adjust for the fact that missed 3 pointers are more likely to lead to opposing fast breaks?

    How do adjust for the physical difficulty/fatigue of step backs vs normal shots. Have you ever tried a step back 3 on a NBA 3 point line? It's physically hard.

    And I would never suggest that..... Why do you and others have a terrible habit of using the most extreme example?

    Can he just do it sometimes?

    The question is does Harden maximize Harden moreso or the team moreso?

    Maybe the ball is energy..... and you need to move it around......
     
  9. aelliott

    aelliott Contributing Member

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    Not sure I'd agree with a blanket statement that all Houston fans are clueless but I do agree that Wall could be great.

    Some people act as if he can no longer walk and then I go to youtube and see him do a 360 dunk in his workouts. He's been playing lots of pickup and everyone says that his speed and athleticism are still good.

    Wall does quite a few things better than WB. He's a better shooter, better ballhandler, better passer and a much better defender. Prior to his injury, he was the fastest player in the league with the ball in his hands.

    This reminds me of when we acquired Kevin Martin. He'd missed 35 games the prior year and had already missed another 35 in that season. We heard all of the same things predicting that he'd never be healthy. He ended up being relatively healthy in his years here and had some of the best seasons of his career.

    There's obviously no guarentees but it would be nice to at least hold off judgement till we actually see him play.
     
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  10. Imanimal

    Imanimal Member

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    All Houston fans are certainly not clueless....my apologies as it was just frustration talking. Gets hard seeing the constant criticism of future hall of famer Harden.
     
  11. aelliott

    aelliott Contributing Member

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    No but it's certainly much easier to win when you have a great offense.

    You are the one that brought up the contested 3's. You suggested replacing them with open 3s. If it's not a problem then why suggest changing it?

    No, that's a valid question. I believe that it's calculated at the release point.

    So you believe that teams fastbreaking off of our missed 3s is a big issue?

    It's not like Harden is shooting step back 3s on every shot.

     
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  12. forchette49

    forchette49 Contributing Member

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    I think they both realized it just wasn't a good fit, basketball-wise. I think they will remain close. I don't think there was actual beef there like there was with DH and CP3. Those 2 aren't getting Christmas cards any time soon...
     
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  13. Cstyle42

    Cstyle42 Member

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    Wall is a 38 percent 3 point shooter in catch and shoot three pointers. I don't expect him to be a good shooter because that's simply not his game but one thing I do know is Wall isn't turning over the ball like Westbrook is alot in late game possessions.
     
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  14. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    Hallelujah!!

    Clutch needs to sticky this post.
     
  15. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    Now I understand how "Babylon 5" got made
     
  16. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Those great offensive numbers are only post season numbers. Notice how other teams in the he playoffs have better offensive efficiency than the Rockets.

    That's the difference between playing against different teams every other night and playing against the same team 4 to 7 games in a row. Notice how Harden has a trend of having amazing game ones and then having worse performances as the series progresses. Our offense is a gimmick that is easy to gameplay for when there is time.
     
  17. dmoneybangbang

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    Sure, but ours wasn't good enough/balanced enough.

    Because you asked/suggested if it was THE problem when I brought it up and replied it was example....

    Interesting.

    Not sure how to quantify the severity, but it is a consequence of missing 3 point shoots. Maybe it is or isnt a coincidence our transition defense has been bad these last few seasons.

    Of course it isn't, but hasn't it become his signature shot?

    The rest of your response got jumbled up in the quote boxes.... So i'll just bold the pertinent.

    I suggested Harden move more off ball, not become "Ray Allen with endless screens". I bolded this because this is ultimately where the conservation leads to when I suggest Harden adapt his game. No.... Harden doesn't need to become Ray Allen 2.0 or Klay Thompson 2.0 in order to balance out our offensive attack. No.... WB wasn't such a hapless creator that Harden couldn't have been a great off ball player in spurts (like in OKC).

    Lastly, what are the quality of open shots Harden generates? If the ball is energy.... then it would be deflating standing at the ready waiting to see if Harden passes to you after dancing at the 3 point line. Maybe more structure so the role players feel more involved? I'm just convinced Harden maximizes himself, not the team with his current style.
     
  18. James.B.H

    James.B.H Member

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    The scoring champion in the history of the NBA that averages less shot attempts per game than his teammate in a season, 2019-2020 James Harden.
     
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  19. napalm06

    napalm06 Huge Flopping Fan

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    Whoa, never said anything about Lin fans
     
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  20. James.B.H

    James.B.H Member

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    For his last two years in OKC, he wasn't not on his own, he was actually the second best player in the team, so this is an understatement.
     
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