lol... MDA... lol... because Mike... A) you dont overuse it and become too close to a one trick pony that teams can gameplan for... or wait until the playoffs to show u how they figured out how to defend it - and then yer scrambling trying to figure out what else to do... (see the year we froze out D12, over used Harden - since he was the best option - and got bumped in the first round...) B) you dont want the rest of your team to 'cool down' and become lethargic by getting accustomed to standing on the court like pedestrians... (see the energy when Corey Brewer & Josh Smith won us a playoff game - with a benched Harden) C) you dont want to overburden Harden on the offensive end - and get little to nothing from him on the defensive end... minute mgmt was never a trait of MDA... and Harden always wanted all the touches he could get... any wonder why we had issues closing out hard fought games down the stretch? MDA... smh... Like after one of the games against SA where he said people 'didnt know what they were talking about' regarding his short rotation... and then upon a blowout elimination said how they need to work on better load mgmt going forward... lol
Signing Harden is still a no brainer, but lets run through some of the faulty premises that litter this thread. 1.) People just don't seem to understand how ridiculously good Harden was at his peak here, due to not winning a ring. His peak was Jordan-esque, GOAT level offensive player, which has only been matched a few times in history. 2.) Partly because of #1, people seem to think Harden has fallen off a cliff and no longer a good player..which, while it is true Harden is on the backside of his career, he is still comfortably in his prime, which is an absurdly good and impactful player. 3.) Some people are clearly just flat out butt hurt about him leaving, which clouds their opinion making. 4.) Some people seem to think Harden quit in games, or is a cancer in the locker room, which there is zero evidence of. 5.) Partly due to 4, people for some reason think Harden would be a bad influence on young players, which again, has never proven to be true. 6.) People seem to think Harden still is hugely ball dominant and just jacks up a bunch shots, but seemingly haven't watched him at all in Brooklyn or Philly, where his game is completely different. 7.) People think Harden somehow kills or sabotages an inevitable ascension by young players, and destroys the rebuild. 8.) Fans somehow think the team is going to build a beautiful motion offense with glorious screening, cutting, back picks, which has really only been done by a handful of teams, with truly unique players. With or without Harden, its going to be the same offense that 90% of the NBA uses which is pick and roll based.... 9.) People want to sign "other vets" but can't seem to name which ones. The only legitimate argument are the cap concerns, which I get. Every other argument is nonsense. Get over it, it makes sense.
My main concerns would be cap, and also one you didn't mention, which is that if we pick a high-upside point guard (Amen or somehow Scoot) I don't want us to have a star on the backside of his career blocking that young player from starting for 3-4 years. My preference would be to have a guy we can trade or let walk in no more than 2 years, preferably less. I'm genuinely concerned that if we give Harden a big contract he will become untradable as he reaches his late 30s and we will be all but forced to start him at point guard. I suppose he could always be waived/bought out but I really don't think you should sign a guy planning that as a serious possibility, except perhaps if you think he's the last piece to potentially win a title. So I remain in the "okay with Harden coming back but NOT at any price" camp.
If your goal is to start winning immediately, you are not playing any rookies basically at all, for 2-3 years. Possible exception is big lumbering bigs (like Lively) who really don't have to do much other than rebound and hold their hands up.
Yeah, that's why I said my preference would be a guy we can let go in a couple of years. I'm fine with not starting another rookie this upcoming season, but I don't want him to be blocked by a 36-37 year old Harden a few years from now. All about the contract with Harden. Hope they're not trying to get him at any cost.
I'm not strongly opinionated on the situation either way, if we sign him or pass on him, I'm cool in most situations. I think there are two legit arguments against signing Harden, #1 to allow Ime more control of the offense, and to set a better defensive culture. #2 is the contract situation, it has to make sense long term. Those are 2 really easy boxes to get checks or x's on with 2 basic questions, what does Ime think about bringing him in, and what is Harden willing to sign for, if both of those boxes are checked, bring him back, if they aren't, pass.
And there is that health risk. It took him a full season to recover from his hamstring injury. So if he gets a fairly serious injury, which is very possible at his age, we are looking at at least a wasted season, maybe more. I think the health issue has not been addressed enough.
We aren't getting the peak version of Harden. My concerns for the 2023 version who will turn 34 by the start of the season are as followed: 1) Durability 2) Age related decline 3) Play style 4) Cap space for future flexibility
Harden is still a great player. Still one of the best offensive orchestrators in the league. Still probably would be a +5 or so to this team’s offensive rating next year. Personally, I would rather have VanVleet on $32M/yr or Mike Conley on $26M/yr, even though they are worse (but still good) players. Your faulty premises are twofold: 1. You think the only thing that matters is getting the best players in the positions we need this summer 2. You think everything people say about Harden lacking competitiveness, lacking dog in him, not prioritizing basketball, not fitting into different offensive or defensive systems, and being a poor cultural fit for Ime aren’t true or don’t matter I think both #1 and #2 are wrong. I think we don’t need to get the best players we can this summer, we need to get the players who will contribute to us building the best team we can. That’s different. IMO, getting veterans who will buy in to playing whatever role is asked of them offensively, and buy in to putting in consistent hard work defensively are non negotiables and give us the best framework to develop as a team and for our young guys to develop individually. I don’t think Harden would buy in like that. Also as an aesthetic aside, just as fans, he doesn’t play for us now so we can admit it. He’s an all time great but - being a fan of a Harden team is not very fun.
I would say age is a concern also. That being said harden is still head and shoulder over anyone we could currently sign as a free agent barring kyrie but that guy is a walkin liability
I wouldn't want that extra noise either that comes with him. Dressing up like the last flamingo, surrounding himself with ugly arse rappers, that shouldnt be what Udoka wants a diligent, hard working team to be exposed to. Flying to Vegas whenever he feels like it, are we in a circus or what? I don't think he is all that right in his head either, there is some boy inside his head that needs to splash his wealth around and be like the representative of the rainbow community. If he takes a paycut, people are more willing to listen but he is not going to cut back on 4 years and those millions.
I suspect that his off court problems or issues will come to light once he signs that max deal.... the man obviously has some issues otherwise would not keep numbing himself with entertainment venues. I know he is some HoFer but this ain't a charity number. A normal basketball player no matter how much he aged, wouldn't be this Jekyll and Mr. Hide on the court, it's just not what a normal veteran looks like.
SAS: •Harden wanted to go to Philly with Morey. Fertitta was not going to let that happen. Not going to let Morey walk out the door and take his star with him. Harden insisted he wanted that happen. Brooklyn became an option because Philly was not going to be an option. When Harden wanted out, he said I’m open to coming back. Let me get away and try to get a championship. Houston obliged with the understanding that if there was an accord that could reached down the line, they’d be receptive to bringing him back and he’d be receptive to coming back. •The problem is, and I don’t believe he’s going back, I don’t even believe he wants to go back, he just wants his money. You’re thinking if there’s one organization that’ll pay him, it’ll be them. I’d say to you that’s not going to happen. They might be willing to give him a 2-year deal but not a 4-year deal, particularly at max dollars. I don’t see that happening. •He wanted out. They made an agreement that it is something they’d try to work out in the future. We can have a conversation. They don’t need him and he doesn’t need them.
