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WOJ: BREAKING Westbrook to Houston for CP3 & Picks!!!

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Xerobull, Jul 11, 2019.

  1. Reeko

    Reeko Member
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    no it’s not unless u want to keep including early season Russ who was coming off surgery and playing with Capela...Russ was utter trash until mid-December, and wasn’t playing at his current amazing level until the start of January where he changed his shot selection...his horrible play to start the season is still depressing his overall regular season numbers because he was just that bad

    now he has more spacing without Capela, and isn’t launching threes he can’t hit...start of January Russ is what u should be comparing to CP3, because that is the real Russ for this team

    so compare whatever CP3’s numbers are to Russ’s 32, 8, and 7 on 58% TS and tell me why CP3 is better
     
    JoeBarelyCares, Plowman and D-rock like this.
  2. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    Hated the move from day 1, still do. People labeled cp3 washed and all this other bs. Clearly proved those wrong and is having a damn good year while continuing to impact winning to show for it. It’s a damn shame we weren’t able to see another harden/cp3 shot with GS out of the picture this year

    But at this point it is what it is. The Rockets team as an entire fit at the beginning was terrible. They’ve made the moves to shift towards what fits with The wb/harden combo. Granted it’s a drastic change playing without a big but its obviously necessary given the personnel and their strengths/weaknesses on how this team plays.
     
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  3. Icehouse

    Icehouse Contributing Member

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    Good points. Three things though:

    1) You can't just isolate a portion of a season and compare. That's cherrypicking.

    2) We didn't have to give away our starting C and go to an unconventional style of play to maximize CP3. Having to abandon bigs in basketball to make it work with Wetsbrook is kinda a big deal.

    3) DEFENSE
     
  4. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    Covington is a better player than Capela. Also healthier and available to play right now.
     
  5. Reeko

    Reeko Member
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    yes I can

    Russ is a completely different player now...his shot selection is much better, he is healthy, and is now playing with a roster that better maximizes him

    the Russ u will see going forward is the one from the start of January...not the one who was recovering from surgery, messed up fingers, and was struggling to shoot 40% from the field...he shot 52% from the field in January, 55% in February, and 49% in March...no guard in history has ever taken as many shots in the paint as Russ has since the change in shot selection...that is the Russ that we have now, so that is the Russ we should be comparing to CP3...early season recovering from injury Russ playing with Capela is irrelevant

    the Rockets were in desperate need of a good wing player...Covington>Capela

    U have a problem with that trade? The Rockets are going all in on spacing. They are not abandoning bigs, they are abandoning bigs who can’t shoot. If they can get their hands on a big that can shoot, they will. Capela types are obsolete here.

    you’re talking as if CP3 is about to win DPOY and Russ is the worst defender in the league

    Rockets defensive ranking last season - 17th

    Rockets defensive ranking this season - 16th

    Rockets defensive rating after getting rid of Capela - 14th

    I fail to see where the Rockets are so dearly missing CP3’s defense...last season with him and Capela, they were still below average

    32, 8, and 7 since January 1st on 58% TS...41 points at Boston...40 points at LAC...41 points on the road against the Lakers

    CP3 and all his efficiency and defense can not compete with that
     
  6. Reeko

    Reeko Member
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    since January 1st, the only players u could say were playing at a higher level than Russ are Giannis and Lebron...the leaders of the top team in each conference

    at no point in this season or last season could u have ever said that for Chris Paul

    Chris Paul has surprisingly not missed games, and he is playing better than last year...that’s about it...OKC has also done surprisingly well, but it’s not a CP3 plus scrubs situation...SGA, Schroder, and Gallo have also been putting in major work
     
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  7. Icehouse

    Icehouse Contributing Member

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    We "can" do anything we choose to, but you are still cherrypicking a portion of the season and ignoring the complete season. You assume the Russ we see going forward will be the one we saw for a portion of the season, which ignores the rest of the season and his career period (as far as his efficiency goes).

    They could have used the assets traded to swap PG's to acquire a good wing player, while keeping Capela.

    I do, because we gave up assets and the team hasn't been upgraded. Capela is not obsolete. He's obsolete next to a PG that can't shoot. The only thing I like about the trade is that it keeps Harden happy, which should keep him wanting to stay here.

    I'm talking as is one PG is good defensively while the other one isn't.

    OKC is winning 63% of their games with CP3. That never happened with Westbrook as the main guy, and in two of those seasons he had PG13.
     
    #2207 Icehouse, Jul 12, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2020
  8. smoothie_king

    smoothie_king Member

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    Wow. No comment. So now you are trolling the recently traded capeala.

    Has Covington even had a better rebounding series than capeala in playoffs let alone a better scoring playoff series than Clint capeala?
     
  9. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    F off troll.

    Village idiot posing as basketball guru.
     
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  10. Reeko

    Reeko Member
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    lol no...there are distinct reasons why Russ is different now...reasons that have to do with his health, shot selection, and composition of the team as I already outlined...so yes, I can throw out early season Russ and will continue to do so since that Russ in that lesser spacing situation is irrelevant

    let’s deal with what’s actually happened and not what if scenarios...u did nothing to disprove my point, it still stands..we’d been in need of a good wing player for years, and acquiring a C is far easier than acquiring a good 3 and D wing, especially one that plays defense at Covington’s level...nothing that u said proves otherwise

    u literally just repeated what I said...

    yes, Capela is obsolete here, but bigs aren’t...your claim that they’ve given up on bigs is false...they’ve given up on bigs that can’t shoot since they’ve gone all in on spacing...they were not able to acquire a shooting big at the deadline, so they’re rolling with what they have which is better than what we had pre-trade

    If a big that can actually shoot wants to come here and the Rockets are able to acquire that player, Morey will pass? Please...

    maybe Tilman will because of money

    let’s also not forget that Capela was out with a heel injury at the time of the trade and on April 21st said that he still wasn’t 100%

    Rockets with CP3 last season - 17th defensively

    Rockets with Russ - 16th defensively

    Rockets after trading Capela - 14th defensively

    all facts u can’t counter

    if CP3 is so godly defensively and Russ is so bad, why is there no difference in the Rockets defensive performance after he’s gone?
     
    D-rock likes this.
  11. smoothie_king

    smoothie_king Member

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    Covington is just another small ball experiment from d'antoni.

    They signed Covington to justify keeping pj Tucker and perhaps granting Tucker an extension.

    This team signs east conference rejects in order legitimize small ball just like how they tried shumpert and far"weed", east coast rejects!
     
  12. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    Dear lord you are an imbecile to the nth degree.
     
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  13. HorryForThree

    HorryForThree Member

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    I thought the trade with CP3 was bad, even with the hamstring-away-from championship season. And I'm not just saying that now - I said that at the time of the trade and have always believed that we overpaid for him and traded away too many assets. Guys like Harrel, Lou, Bev, picks, etc. was just way too high a price. I think collectively the group was getting to where CP3 took them anyways, and that the season before the trade the group finally started to gel. Harden was young, and the other guys were maturing well. Morey should have given it some time while scouring better deals for a star if he wanted one.

    Having said that, we had to trade CP3, and Russ has been a welcome upgrade. CP3 is having a good season, but it won't last. He's too old, too slow, and is already showing diminishing returns when compared to his salary. Russ still has elite explosiveness and can turn a game around single-handedly.
     
  14. Icehouse

    Icehouse Contributing Member

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    What's distinct is you are ignoring the complete season and the rest of his career (as far as his efficiency goes) to focus on a small sample size of games.

    I am. All of what has happened, not just a sample size of games.

    With a guard that can't shoot like Westbrook...yes, he is. Guards typically provide the spacing you are talking about. The team that traded for him has guards that don't kill spacing.

    Those bigs are actually harder and more expensive to acquire. It's why we just decided to go small. Guys like Covington actually aren't that hard to acquire. Again, we could have acquired him with some of the assets we gave up for Westbrook, and kept our C.

    You are correct that Capela was out. As far as our defensive numbers last year, you are ignoring other factors like our health last season and what happened with Jeff B. Our D was pretty good before that when we didn't have those issues, right?

    CP3 is a good defender and Westbrook isn't. PeriodT.

    No response to CP3 having OKC winning at a higher clip than Westbrook ever did while leading the team, despite not having anyone like a PG13 on the roster?
     
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  15. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    I was against the trade and still think we gave up too much, but Westbrook has surprised me. As @Reeko pointed out, and it’s not like it’s something most of us haven’t noticed, when Russ got healthy, changed his shot selection, really began to mesh with the team, and we got Covington, I almost didn’t recognize the guy.

    I think James has been “off” for stretches of this season. Not sure what the deal is, figured it might be overuse catching up with him, maybe an injury, he never talks about injuries, but I’m excited about the team we had going before COVID-19 blew things up. Yes, we “ended” this weird season that is staggering to some sort of conclusion soon on a poor stretch.

    Yet if everyone is healthy, especially Harden, who looked transformed when he eventually appeared during the hiatus, and in a good way in my opinion, if Gordon is what he can be, and if Prince Luc can play reasonably well, a big question mark, but I’m optimistic for some reason, I like our chances. What I don’t like are the huge question marks about our best players and the god damned virus. That, and the weird way this season is apparently going to end. The league is taking a tremendous risk. They are rolling the ****ing dice, no question about it.

    All my appendages are crossed, hoping that the team we have is the team we’re going to be able to play when the rubber hits the road.
     
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  16. Reeko

    Reeko Member
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    Hmm, has Russ ever played with this much spacing? Has he ever changed his shot selection as dramatically as he did this year? No? So his career and early season is irrelevant. He has never played like this or been on a team like this.

    No, you’re not. You’re bringing up what if scenarios. So I’ll take it that u repeating what I said yet again means u agree. Capela is obsolete because he can’t shoot. Bigs that can shoot aren’t. Therefore, your claim that the Rockets are abandoning big men is a false. If a big can shoot, the Rockets will be interested.

    A guy like Covington not being hard to acquire is another false statement. Lmao

    I already talked about why OKC is winning this year. I don’t like repeating something I’ve already said.

    Yeah, because our team was just as healthy as can be this year :rolleyes:. Jeff B isn’t here this year, yet the defense is better. U can’t counter my facts which is clear. Good, I can stop wasting my time now.
     
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  17. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    Even if you want argue that WB is as good as CP3 (spoiler: he isn't), there is absolutely no way you can argue he is 4 future first round picks better.

    If we had kept Paul and just spent the 4 picks on win now players, we would have a far far better team. Hell we could have had Covington AND Capela.

    Unveliably stupid trade by an unbelievably stupid owner.
     
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  18. Icehouse

    Icehouse Contributing Member

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    Yes he has. He used to share the floor with Durant, Harden and Ibaka.

    11 years of play isn’t irrelevant but I get it...you only want to focus on a small sample size of games. We get it.


    No, I’m looking at all information instead of cherry picking like you.

    False. Capela is obsolete alongside Westbrook because Westbrook can’t shoot. A team with guards that can shoot just traded for him. When we had a PG that could shoot he wasn’t obsolete either.

    And bigs like that are hard to acquire. 3 and D wings aren’t.

    He’s not. He’s been traded multiple times in a short span already. Along with plenty of other 3 and D wings.

    They are winning because CP3 is playing great ball and has a decent supporting cast. He doesn’t have more help than Westbrook had the last two seasons. No, you didn’t mention that. I did.

    You mentioned our defensive numbers from last year as support that going from CP3 to Westbrook made no difference on D, while ignoring the season prior when we had great numbers with those players healthy and our coach in place. All to simply avoid noting one guard is clearly a better defender than the other. Yes, please stop wasting our time trying to convince us that CP3 is not > Westbrook defensively.
     
  19. Icehouse

    Icehouse Contributing Member

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    I’m not sure why this is so hard for some (ie Reeko) to grasp. Even further highlighted by OKC winning at a higher clip despite losing PG13 too.
     
  20. Easy

    Easy Very Calm
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    To me, the only reasonable argument for supporting the trade was that there was a huge fall out between Harden and Paul and the two guys could not coexist. If that was the case, then you had no choice but get rid of CP3.

    And the fact that you had to give up two first rounders and two pick swaps in order to get back another terrible contract is a testament of how absolutely horrible CP3's contract was.

    The consolation is that Westbrook did play much better after (1) he stopped shootig 3s, and (2) we got rid of the bigs. (Both of these conditions will not bode well for the team after he starts losing his speed.)
     
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