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With Lower Estimated Cap, Rockets Probably Can't Offer Max

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by BimaThug, Jul 12, 2009.

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  1. rockets934life

    rockets934life Member

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    Ok guys here is a trade scenrio that could benefit us but put us slightly over the luxury tax so I guess it may depend on Les.
    Three things that need to happen:
    Sign Oberto to a pretty low deal
    3 way deal with Portland and Charlotte noted below
    Trading Barry and Cook for a backup point of some sort or signing a PG for a small amount.
    Charlotte gets Joel P. Kyle Lowery and Luis Scola.
    Portland gets Battier and DJ Agustin
    Rox get Okafor, Fernandez and Outlaw

    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=nlhjcl
    It would give us the below lineup without a potential big free agent yet keeping us somewhat in a decent cap situation.

    2009-2010
    Okafer $10,538,937.00 Dorsey $881,000.00 Oberto $1 mill
    Yao $16,378,325.00
    Landry $3,000,000.00 Hayes $2,111,750.00 Cook $3,500,000.00
    Ariza $5,854,000.00 Outlaw $4,000,000.00 Buddinger $1,000,000.00
    Fernandez $1,165,320.00 White $825,497.00 Taylor $1,500,000.00 TMAC $23,239,561.00
    Brooks $1,118,520.00 (PG) $1,500,000.00 Barry $2,062,800.00
    $79,675,710.00

    2010-2011 Yao $16,378,325.00 Dorsey $946,300.00 Oberto $1,500,000.00
    Okafer $11,540,375.00 Landry $3,000,000.00 (PF) $850,000.00
    Ariza $6,322,320.00 Outlaw $6,000,000.00 Buddinger $1,000,000.00
    Free Agent $16,000,000.00 Fernandez $1,246,680.00 Draft Pick $1 mill
    Brooks $2,016,691.00 Taylor $1,000,000.00 PG $1,000,000.00
    $69,800,691.00

    Ok now since I am no expert when it comes to the cap I was hoping for some clarification if it something worth exporing?

    Also can we sign a big free agent but back load the contract leaving us in a better cap situation expecting Yao to resign at a reduced rate in 2011-12?
     
    #121 rockets934life, Jul 13, 2009
  2. NotInMyHouse

    NotInMyHouse Member

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    Recently activated spam sleeper cell.
     
    #122 NotInMyHouse, Jul 13, 2009
  3. W22_STREAK

    W22_STREAK Member

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    So Battier + Lowry + Scola for Okafor, Fernandez, Outlaw???

    No way we touch this deal...

    Scola > Okafor, at least in terms of production in relation to contract, tbh I think Scola is a better offensive player than okafor.

    This deal actually reduces our capspace for 2010. Okafor has a huge contract I don't think Morey wants anything to do with and Lowry and Scola are both expirings in 2010, whereas Fernandez's deal goes through to 2011.

    Plus Charlotte isn't going to give up DJ Augustin anyways...they LOVE him and passed on Lopez just because they specifically targetted him.

    This deal reduces our capspace for 2010 and doesn't really help our team to become much better to justify taking on big contracts.
     
    #123 W22_STREAK, Jul 13, 2009
  4. BimaThug

    BimaThug Resident Capologist
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    Actually, I'm not wrong. Hollinger was not referring to Toronto's sign-and-trade for Hedo as what allowed them to use their MLE. It was the sign-and-trade of MARION that allowed them to do so. By signing Marion to a multi-year deal, Toronto basically used up its cap space (or at least enough of it for the team to renounce the remaining space and opt to use its salary cap exceptions). Then, once the trade was completed, Toronto ended up with Hedo Turkoglu, Antoine Wright, Devean George and its ability to use its salary cap exceptions. So, when Hollinger talks about the trade between Toronto and Orlando, he's referring to the four-team deal that enabled Toronto to obtain Hedo and still have its MLE.

    To parallel this to the Rockets, doing a sign-and-trade for Bosh using their cap space would not enable them to use their MLE and other exceptions. It would basically take a sign-and-trade of T-Mac to accomplish this.

    But you inadvertantly raise an interesting point: If T-Mac comes back healthy and plays well, yet is still not in the Rockets' future, perhaps Morey could work out a similar, complicated sign-and-trade to send McGrady to another team, take back a good player (who himself might be signed and traded) and still retain their MLE to use. This way, the Rockets could keep all of their own free agents. Or at least most of them.
     
    #124 BimaThug, Jul 13, 2009
    1 person likes this.
  5. Thefabman

    Thefabman Member

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    i dont know if this has been answered bc my internet is acting crazy and i cant read past page one, my question is cant the rockets exceed the cap to resign their own players and if so since the luxury tax is something like 10 mill more cant we use say 20 mill to sign a wade and be right under the cap then use the remaining money up to the luxtax to resign our players? im no capologist
     
    #125 Thefabman, Jul 13, 2009
  6. BimaThug

    BimaThug Resident Capologist
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    No, they cannot. Once a team exceeds the salary cap, no outside free agents can be signed except by using a salary cap exception like the MLE. The luxury tax threshold is simply an economic disincentive to owners to keep them from building up excessive payrolls. But the salary cap is the critical number when determining a team's ability to sign outside free agents.
     
    #126 BimaThug, Jul 13, 2009
  7. Thefabman

    Thefabman Member

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    thanks alot for the explanation, i miss the good old days when the charles barkleys of the world had 3 million dollar contracts, all these numbers and rules regarding signing players are r****ded to me
     
    #127 Thefabman, Jul 13, 2009
  8. BimaThug

    BimaThug Resident Capologist
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    No worries. It's all good. ;)

    I agree that we are basically saying the same thing - that the Rockets probably should not try to open up max cap space to the detriment of the overall depth of the roster. It was just the whole "Morey can easily create max cap space" comment that threw me off. I don't agree that it would be "easy", and I also think that Morey would find it very "hard" to keep his job if he did that, since Les would probably fire him for such lunacy.
     
    #128 BimaThug, Jul 14, 2009
  9. Tom Bombadillo

    Tom Bombadillo Member

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    I found it Bima.

    This is a great post...
    It amazes me that we would not have the money to offer a max with Yao, Scola, Ariza and Brooks being the only pieces...



    This makes me wonder if we are just stuck with Mcgrady.....or rebuilding...
     
    #129 Tom Bombadillo, Aug 25, 2009
  10. saleem

    saleem Member

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    Guess the Z idea won't work out after all. ;)
     
    #130 saleem, Aug 25, 2009
  11. RedRowdy111

    RedRowdy111 Member

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    You guys keep talking Max deals, but what about a below max contract for a Carmelo or Joe Johnson kind of player. Lets face it, we aint getting Lebron or Wade. Knowing Morey, he will moneyball next summer as usual, and go for one of the top guys, but not the elite.
     
    #131 RedRowdy111, Aug 25, 2009
  12. saleem

    saleem Member

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    I think Carmelo is a near max player,and probably will stay in Denver. Joe Johnson did poorly in the playoffs this year,unlike the previous season,which makes me somewhat reluctant to go after him even though his regular season stats were good. I do agree with you that he is a below max contract.
     
    #132 saleem, Aug 25, 2009
  13. juicystream

    juicystream Member

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    Carmelo is getting the max.
     
    #133 juicystream, Aug 25, 2009
  14. couple of d's

    couple of d's Member

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    Agreed. If Rashard Lewis can get 118 million, someone will give Melo the max
     
    #134 couple of d's, Aug 25, 2009
  15. tiger0330

    tiger0330 Member

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    I would bet that Yao would take less than the max contract and structure his contract similar to what Tim Duncan did to allow the Rox to sign a few players so the Rox can contend. The Rox haven't gotten their money's worth with all his injuries so he owes the Rox on his next contract.
     
    #135 tiger0330, Aug 25, 2009
  16. LabMouse

    LabMouse Member

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    100% agree, I think he will do it to improve the team.

     
    #136 LabMouse, Aug 25, 2009
  17. Raven

    Raven Member

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    It's foolish for anyone who doesn't know Yao personally to assume that he'll give the Rockets a sweetheart deal. I suppose it's possible, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

    As to the thread topic, I'm not a cap specialist, so I'll defer to those who claim to be (or at least do a good job of faking it), so I'll leave it at this: Never bet against Morey. He was, after all, hired specifically for this type of challenge, to find a way to make the numbers work.
     
    #137 Raven, Aug 25, 2009
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