i don't mean to make light of $1BB dollars, the estimated wisconsin deficit shortfall but compare that to tx at almost $30BB and these measures are extreme but the wi govenor
So is this silmilar to the Yes campus in Houston?? <iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/VOWh6mSsIvE?hd=1" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
You saved a lot of us from having to reply. Thank you. Sadly I have to spread more rep before repping you again
Unions have their issues, but when middle class and poor people treat unions as if they're the bad guys then you know that those people have been so thoroughly suckered by the wealthy that they will forever have their heads stuck up the upper class's asses.
Actually if you go to the wisconsin budget project website it's outlined rather clearly. There may be a slight inaccuracy in saying all the tax cuts came from Walker. Some of them were tax cuts from before that are only being phased in now or expanded now. http://www.wisconsinbudgetproject.org/tax_cuts_12-2010.pdf Keep talking about the truth Major.
True the Founders were suspicious of democracy to a fairly high degree but the US has changed quite a bit since then. Saying the Founders didn't make the US a democracy in the true is correct but that doesn't mean that the US now isn't a democracy. But that doesn't mean the US isn't a democracy. In the sense that the Knesset has more power than the US Congress and are not bound by an Executive branch or as much by the Israeli Constitution I can see your point. At the same time though they are not directly elected by the people like US Reps and Senators, parties are voted on, so in that case I would say that is less democratic. Either way I don't think that lessens that the US is a democracy. A republican constitutional democracy but still a democracy. I posted a link to an article earlier in the thread that explained what Walker meant by calling out the National Guard Going by what you said that what happened in Egypt is an apt comparison to what is happening in Madison based off of exercising your right to protest than any protest regarding anything is an apt comparison. If the NFL has a lockout next year you will hear a lot of complaints about the Player's union. During previous player strikes and lockouts there have been plenty of complaints about those unions same with when their was a screenwriters strike a few years ago. I am not a supporter of Walker or this bill and think the protest are justified but this whole thing about the National Guard is overblown. Walker himself may have been engaging in hyperbole when he brought up the guard himself and certainly didn't help the situation but I find the ongoing hyperbole just hardening the situation. I especially don't think something having the Tea Party counter rally is helping.
Except that this Bill goes further than just addressing Wisconsin's budget deficit but doing away with collective bargaining. The unions have said they are willing to work with the state government and accept cuts in benefits and etc. which may address the financial situation without removing their right to collectively bargain.
I agree with politifact that Wisconsin wasn't facing a balanced budget before Walker's tax cutting policies BUT as politifact notes Walker's policies are exacerbating the budget problems.
Wis. Law Enforcement Association 'Regrets' Endorsing Walker 5:49 pm CST February 20, 2011 http://www.channel3000.com/politics/26933675/detail.html MADISON, Wis. -- The executive board president of the Wisconsin Law Enforcement Association has issued a statement on the organization's website expressing regret for the endorsement of Gov. Scott Walker in the governor's race. In a post dated Feb. 16, Tracy Fuller writes, "I am going to make an effort to speak for myself, and every member of the Wisconsin State Patrol when I say this … I specifically regret the endorsement of the Wisconsin Trooper's Association for Gov. Scott Walker. I regret the governor's decision to 'endorse' the troopers and inspectors of the Wisconsin State Patrol. I regret being the recipient of any of the perceived benefits provided by the governor's anointing. I think everyone's job and career is just as significant as the others. Everyone's family is just as valuable as mine or any other persons, especially mine. Everyone's needs are just as valuable. We are all great people!!" The full statement can be found at www.wlea.org. The statement was posted during a week in which tens of thousands of people descended on the Capitol building to protest Walker's budget bill that would curtail union rights for most public employees. Walker's bill would strip state and local government employees, including teachers, custodians and game wardens, of their ability to collectively bargain everything except their wages. But the measure carves out a special exemption for local police officers, firefighters and the Wisconsin State Patrol. Critics said the move amounts to political payback for unions that support Walker and could create a schism between government workers. During his campaign for governor, Walker was endorsed by the Wisconsin State Troopers, as well as the Milwaukee Police and Firefighters associations and the West Allis Professional Police. In all, five public employee unions endorsed Walker, and four of the five are completely unharmed by Walker's budget repair bill, WISC-TV reported. Walker has denied that the unions are getting political payback. Some police would lose union rights under the bill, including Capitol and University of Wisconsin police. Walker said their work can be covered in the event of a slowdown, while local protection can't. When asked why union rights should be any different for police, fire and state inspectors, Walker said that overall there is a different expectation. "Currently, we've had a long tradition and when it comes to fire and police service in the state of Wisconsin. Statutes are very different when it comes to whole series of rights and responsibilities," Walker said. Walker's proposal for unions has spawned massive protests in Madison. Sunday is the sixth consecutive day that protests have been held at the Wisconsin Capitol against Walker's bill. Police said nearly 70,000 people converged on the Wisconsin Capitol on Saturday to join in protests over the Republican bill. According to the Madison Police Department, 60,000 people gathered outside the building with another 8,000 inside on Saturday -- easily the largest crowd yet as the protest stretched through its fifth day. The demonstration was far more intense on Saturday, though, as hundreds of tea party supporters staged a counter rally outside the Capitol. Police spokesman Joel DeSpain said there were no arrests. He refused to say how large the tea party contingent was, but union supporters clearly outnumbered them. The governor said that the moves are necessary to better contend with the state's fiscal problems and he can't negotiate with the unions since the state has nothing to offer. The bill's supporters said public workers must make sacrifices to help balance the state's budget. The state has a projected $3.6 billion budget shortfall. However, the measure's opponents said that they believe the bill is an attack on middle-class families.
Because they aren't allowed under their constitution to recall him at all, because there is some time limit before you can do so, or because that's the next election?
Ah, thanks for clearing that up, mc mark. Yes, too bad. Edit: Thoughts about the Wisconsin crisis and much more from Paul Krugman. As he often does, the guy hits the nail squarely on its head. February 20, 2011 Wisconsin Power Play By PAUL KRUGMAN Last week, in the face of protest demonstrations against Wisconsin’s new union-busting governor, Scott Walker — demonstrations that continued through the weekend, with huge crowds on Saturday — Representative Paul Ryan made an unintentionally apt comparison: “It’s like Cairo has moved to Madison.” It wasn’t the smartest thing for Mr. Ryan to say, since he probably didn’t mean to compare Mr. Walker, a fellow Republican, to Hosni Mubarak. Or maybe he did — after all, quite a few prominent conservatives, including Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh and Rick Santorum, denounced the uprising in Egypt and insist that President Obama should have helped the Mubarak regime suppress it. In any case, however, Mr. Ryan was more right than he knew. For what’s happening in Wisconsin isn’t about the state budget, despite Mr. Walker’s pretense that he’s just trying to be fiscally responsible. It is, instead, about power. What Mr. Walker and his backers are trying to do is to make Wisconsin — and eventually, America — less of a functioning democracy and more of a third-world-style oligarchy. And that’s why anyone who believes that we need some counterweight to the political power of big money should be on the demonstrators’ side. Some background: Wisconsin is indeed facing a budget crunch, although its difficulties are less severe than those facing many other states. Revenue has fallen in the face of a weak economy, while stimulus funds, which helped close the gap in 2009 and 2010, have faded away. In this situation, it makes sense to call for shared sacrifice, including monetary concessions from state workers. And union leaders have signaled that they are, in fact, willing to make such concessions. But Mr. Walker isn’t interested in making a deal. Partly that’s because he doesn’t want to share the sacrifice: even as he proclaims that Wisconsin faces a terrible fiscal crisis, he has been pushing through tax cuts that make the deficit worse. Mainly, however, he has made it clear that rather than bargaining with workers, he wants to end workers’ ability to bargain. The bill that has inspired the demonstrations would strip away collective bargaining rights for many of the state’s workers, in effect busting public-employee unions. Tellingly, some workers — namely, those who tend to be Republican-leaning — are exempted from the ban; it’s as if Mr. Walker were flaunting the political nature of his actions. Why bust the unions? As I said, it has nothing to do with helping Wisconsin deal with its current fiscal crisis. Nor is it likely to help the state’s budget prospects even in the long run: contrary to what you may have heard, public-sector workers in Wisconsin and elsewhere are paid somewhat less than private-sector workers with comparable qualifications, so there’s not much room for further pay squeezes. So it’s not about the budget; it’s about the power. In principle, every American citizen has an equal say in our political process. In practice, of course, some of us are more equal than others. Billionaires can field armies of lobbyists; they can finance think tanks that put the desired spin on policy issues; they can funnel cash to politicians with sympathetic views (as the Koch brothers did in the case of Mr. Walker). On paper, we’re a one-person-one-vote nation; in reality, we’re more than a bit of an oligarchy, in which a handful of wealthy people dominate. Given this reality, it’s important to have institutions that can act as counterweights to the power of big money. And unions are among the most important of these institutions. You don’t have to love unions, you don’t have to believe that their policy positions are always right, to recognize that they’re among the few influential players in our political system representing the interests of middle- and working-class Americans, as opposed to the wealthy. Indeed, if America has become more oligarchic and less democratic over the last 30 years — which it has — that’s to an important extent due to the decline of private-sector unions. And now Mr. Walker and his backers are trying to get rid of public-sector unions, too. There’s a bitter irony here. The fiscal crisis in Wisconsin, as in other states, was largely caused by the increasing power of America’s oligarchy. After all, it was superwealthy players, not the general public, who pushed for financial deregulation and thereby set the stage for the economic crisis of 2008-9, a crisis whose aftermath is the main reason for the current budget crunch. And now the political right is trying to exploit that very crisis, using it to remove one of the few remaining checks on oligarchic influence. So will the attack on unions succeed? I don’t know. But anyone who cares about retaining government of the people by the people should hope that it doesn’t. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/21/opinion/21krugman.html?_r=1&src=me&ref=general
The gov and his horrible unethical power play has certainly backfired on him. I think a lot of people are already having regrets.
Moderate Wisconsin Republicans Offer Compromise With Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker maintaining a hard line on his budget bill and Democratic senators refusing to return to Madison to vote, attention is turning to a group of moderate Republican senators to negotiate a compromise to the stalemate that has drawn thousands of protesters to the state capital for a sixth straight day. The proposal, written by Sen. Dale Schultz and first floated in the Republican caucus early last week, calls for most collective bargaining rights of public-employee unions to be eliminated—per Mr. Walker's bill—but then reinstated in 2013, said Mr. Schultz's chief of staff Todd Allbaugh. "Dale is committed to find a way to preserve collective bargaining in the future," said Mr. Allbaugh in a telephone interview. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...964112764614.html?mod=WSJ_hp_MIDDLETopStories
That looks like a lame "end around," just like the Bush tax cuts that were supposed to expire. Everyone saw how that turned out. If I were a public employee there, a school teacher, I would keep protesting. They need to toss the union busting plan into a dumpster and close the lid.
