1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Wisconsin Legislators Leave State to Prevent Vote

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by rocketsjudoka, Feb 17, 2011.

  1. mc mark

    mc mark Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 1999
    Messages:
    26,195
    Likes Received:
    471
    So as a side note; can we assume that those here who side with the good Gov won't be celebrating or taking any time off the first Monday in September anymore.

    AMIRITE?
     
  2. bnb

    bnb Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2002
    Messages:
    6,992
    Likes Received:
    316
    As a show of solidarity for the good Senators from Wisconsin, I think I'll head out of town the first Monday of September.
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 1999
    Messages:
    48,984
    Likes Received:
    1,445
    ok fleebaggers is pretty funny (or i just got home from a crappy day at work). :cool:
     
  4. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,167
    Likes Received:
    48,334
    Following up I just heard on the local news that at least one of Wisconsin's unions with 45,000 members has said they will strike if this legislation becomes law.
     
  5. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    51,800
    Likes Received:
    20,458
    A public union is organized for workers who work for the government. They make sure bureaucracies don't take advantage of workers and that workers receive the best training and do the best job they can.

    They are around to try and prevent jerk governors from giving tax benefits to corporations and then forcing teachers to pay for them, while not asking any of the wealthy or corporate CEO's to foot any of the bill.

    They look out for the working guy in the public sector.
     
  6. tallanvor

    tallanvor Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    18,682
    Likes Received:
    11,734
    How do unions make sure a worker does the best job they can?
     
  7. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    51,800
    Likes Received:
    20,458
    Sometimes unions fail here, but the union I'm part of instituted a set of standards that teachers can be judged by, and are held to. They are spelled out, and they are evaluated based on these standards. In addition there is required ongoing education and professional development that teachers must maintain in order to keep their job.

    Also in the article rtsy posted they do their best to make sure unqualified personnel doesn't oversee the supervision of students.
     
  8. tallanvor

    tallanvor Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    18,682
    Likes Received:
    11,734
    What happens if someone fails their evaluation? I have never heard of a union getting one of their members fired.
     
  9. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    51,800
    Likes Received:
    20,458
    2 failed evaluations in a row and you are fired.

    After the first one there is a series of steps that have to be taken to get the teacher help and to make up for the areas that were failed in the evaluation. Those things are done of course.

    That is only true of teachers who have been longer than two years. Before that it only takes one failed evaluation and the teacher can be fired.
     
  10. tallanvor

    tallanvor Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    18,682
    Likes Received:
    11,734
    Then it's the school/government evaluating you and the union allows it. Unions can't fire someone they don't employ.
     
  11. weslinder

    weslinder Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2006
    Messages:
    12,983
    Likes Received:
    291
    1 person likes this.
  12. plcmts17

    plcmts17 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2003
    Messages:
    3,777
    Likes Received:
    179
    Why don't you ask your local cop, firefighter or highway patrolman??
     
  13. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,815
    Likes Received:
    41,287
    I expected to see a lot worse for "completely wrong" - Putting aside the silliness of correlation vs. causation here, obviously a major issue with that anectdote, I expected to see, like Wisconsin ranking at the bottom, and free market paradises like Texas floating to the top.

    Not Wisconsin suffering the ignominy of being dumped to the rear of the top decile in ACT scores.

    That's the best that Koch-sucka money at Cato can buy? meh
     
  14. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,357
    Likes Received:
    9,288
    enlighten me. who do these people work for? who pays their salaries? with what funds?
     
  15. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,167
    Likes Received:
    48,334
    Indiana Democratic legislators leave state too.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41745473/ns/politics-more_politics

    Ind. House Democrats flee state over union law; governor calls it 'contempt'

    INDIANAPOLIS — Indiana House Democrats stayed away from their desks for a second day on Wednesday in an attempt to block a proposed law curbing union power, prompting Gov. Mitch Daniels to say they were showing "complete contempt" for the Democratic process.

    "You know, if they persist, the Democratic Party of Indiana will need a rebranding effort because this is as anti-democratic as behavior can be," Republican Daniels said.

    Like their counterparts in Wisconsin, most House Democrats left Indiana for Illinois to prevent the Indiana house from voting on "right-to-work" and other Republican-sponsored legislation. The measure would have made it a misdemeanor for an employer to require workers to become or stay members of a labor union.

    Because of their absence, the right-to-work bill died Tuesday night and will be "studied" for a year before the legislature looks at it again, according to Senate President Pro Tempore David Long.

    The actions by Indiana legislators mimic what happened in Wisconsin, where senate Democrats have stayed away from the Capitol to avoid voting on legislation that would limit collective bargaining rights for state workers.

    Indiana House Democrats, outnumbered by Republicans 60-40, insist their problems with the state's Republicans go beyond the right-to-work issue.

    "The past few days have seen an unprecedented attack on Hoosier families by a radical House Republican agenda that will hurt millions in both the classroom and the pocketbook," the Democrats said in a statement released from their out-of-state meetings.

    A statement listed four education bills and six labor initiatives that they found unacceptable.

    Daniels said he hopes that having made their point and scoring a victory on a big issue, Democrats will come back to work. "Let's do the people's business, together," Daniels said.
     
  16. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,167
    Likes Received:
    48,334
    Geez are we now debating why we have unions? Unions exist so employees can maximize the returns they get for their work by allowing employees to maximize their negotiating power with employers. That is basic capitalism to try maximize what you can get for your labor.
     
  17. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    57,785
    Likes Received:
    41,212
    Don't confuse the issue with logic, dude.
     
  18. tallanvor

    tallanvor Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    18,682
    Likes Received:
    11,734
    It actually diminishes what you can get if you're good at your job. A good teacher quite often gets paid far less then she/he is worth.
     
  19. mc mark

    mc mark Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 1999
    Messages:
    26,195
    Likes Received:
    471

    Maybe you're starting to grasp where these people's minds are?
     
  20. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,167
    Likes Received:
    48,334
    A good teacher gets paid what the employer is willing to pay him / her so yes it is possible he could earn more than what the union contract has established but at the same time the employer could just decide he is not worth that and low ball with the view that someone else could do the job relatively well if the teacher decides to leave. When a whole group of teachers though work together they have more negotiating power in regard to the contract.

    I don't believe unions are a panacea to labor issues and they certainly cause problems but at the same time historically unions have done a better job getting more return for labor than just individual workers.
     

Share This Page