[Windhorst - Dec 2021] PHI, HOU, SAC, MIN discussing Ben Simmons deal

Like the previous guy said it's not about the shooting. Ben Simmons is a role player paid like a MVP. Unless he learns how to shoot he will never be worth his contact. If he was making Wood money it's a no brainer to trade for him. But with the Rockets having an owner not willing to pay luxury tax, Ben Simmons will really hinder our chances of building a contender in the future.

 

I don't think his shooting is a problem by itself. But if you have a player like Simmons, you have to design a lot of things around him. That limits your options in team building, and you need to have a coach that is capable of doing that. And when you get that kind of money, his shooting sticks out, his unwillingness to improve in that area sticks out even more.

 

Indeed, why else would people still be making comments supportive of Ben Simmons as an NBA star in 2021?

 

Getting Simmons would be making a move just to make a move. If I were Stone, financial flexibility is paramount. Let's say Ben is 30M/year. That's a bunch of the cap tied up in one player, on a rebuilding team in which you're trying to fit good, solid pieces alongside your core. Or maybe you're still trying to find a player that will become your best player (LeBron to the Heat, Kawhi to Toronto, etc).

It's a lot easier to move 3 players worth 10M a year than it is 1 player worth 30M, like Simmons. Just look at Wall: he's still a serviceable PG that can still play well, but there's zero news on the trade front. The contract is just too massive. The Lakers just signed IT2 because they needed another PG. Couldn't get Wall because they'd literally have to give too much in return.

So, the Rockets are either going to win or lose with Simmons, right? Obviously, that's the only two outcomes. If the Rockets win with Simmons and he's a big reason why, the Rockets might have to sign him to another big contract to keep him - he's still going to be prime Simmons at 29, when his contract ends. If you let him go, you're letting a really good player go; and you're seeing how the 76ers look without him, this season. They're a middling .500 team.

So let's say the Rockets lose with Simmons, and then he comes off the books. He's most likely going to have been the primary facilitator, because not being the playmaker takes away his second biggest strength. How much of the development of the Rockets' core would have been reliant on Simmons' basketball vision and IQ? There's a chance that, if Simmons leaves, we'd look like a LeBron-less Cavs or...like the Simmons-less 76ers today, just without an Embiid.

I haven't even gotten to Simmons' fit for the team, regarding his personality. Which, if you've been keeping track in the offseason, is seemingly bad.

 

A lot of fans will be very mad if simmons ever ends up on a team he fits on. What does draymond green do that simmons cant?

 

Hit a three pointer. Set moving screens.

And until recently his contract has been reasonable. But it really doesn't matter in Golden State with an owner willing to pay 200 million in luxury tax.

 

First, let me remind you that you're comparing a #1 overall pick in his prime to a #35 overall pick that's a bit past his. That should already be end of discussion, to be honest. But I'll humor you.

Things Draymond does that Ben does not: Draymond isn't afraid of shooting. Draymond is a morale raiser. Draymond can be a mentor to younger big guys (Wiseman), and hold them accountable.

Obviously, right now, if you had to choose between either to be on your team, you'd most likely pick Simmons - younger and has more potential. But the fact that a #1 pick is compared to a #35 pick is really really sad for the #1 pick.

 

Maybe Simmons should go to GS then.

The deal with Simmons is that he is a very good player but only worth half his contract.

 

Make a lot less and be a vital cog on a potential championship team (and has proven to be one in the past).

 

so nothing

And draymond is on a 25 mil contract btw

 

Well, if you believe the rumors that Ben Simmons wants to be the man on a team, then yes, a lot.
And how much does Ben make?

The issue is that you know what you're getting with Draymond. He's proven it. He's a leader. He'll get in people's faces. Ben hasn't really done much of anything in regards to leading a team or being part of anything other than a dysfunctional team. Whether that's his fault or not, I don't know, but for right now you get a lot from Draymond that Ben hasn't proven to be able to give and for a lot less.

 

What a ridiculous argument. Why does it matter where they are drafted? They play the same role. They would both be complimentary players on a top team

The difference is that draymond IS on a team that plays to his strengths. I hope you two understand the roster, coaching and even city effect how a player performs. Maybe simmons would be more willing to shoot open shots (maybe even make 20% of them like draymond) in a city that doesnt boo their own players after a loss. And no ben simmons does not want to be the first option when hes being crucified for giving up open looks to role players lol

 

Exaclty. If he goes to a team willing to spend $$$$$ he's fine. His problem is his contract makes him look way worse than he actually is.

 

And just because draymond is a loud mouth doesnt mean other players dont make their teammates better. How would you know simmons wasnt a leader on that team

 

Why not? I know you like Simmons, so are questioning Barnes's ability to fit with Simmons? Barnes can fit with almost any player. He can guard 1-4, shoot, dribble and finish What he lacks in creation he makes up for with solid screens, IQ and keep the ball moving.

What makes think it's not a fit?

 

I don't a guy wanting to sit out until he's traded on this team. Weak mentality and I don't want that festering around the young guys.

 

Of course it matters where they're drafted. Because that's always going to be brought up when you compare players' values, stats and what they bring to a team...especially if they're similar. If draft position doesn't matter for the sake of comparison, then you'd never see articles of how "_____ is a bust" or "____ outperformed his draft position" or "____ was a steal @ #19" or anything like that.

As far are your reply to @Dr of Dunk goes, according to you, not only is absolutely nothing Simmons' fault - the 76ers fanbase is to blame? The coaching staff and the roster too? Literally everyone else outside of Ben Simmons is responsible for Ben Simmons' shortcomings? That's some "-only fan" behavior, right there.

And to your last line of reasoning. Are you saying Simmons doesn't want to shoot because he's being criticized for passing it to other players? How does that track? If you're being criticized for not taking it yourself...you usually then try to take it yourself. You don't further shy away from shooting.

 

https://www.sportscasting.com/76ers...en-simmons-childish-bluff-nightmare-scenario/

So a team that's done everything for you, including giving you a ton of cash and letting you choose your own shooting coach, expected you to become a better basketball player.

As Simmons hasn't done that yet, he's also been petty, requesting a trade to another team and refusing to report to games. These are not leadership qualities.

 

This team is building at least some camaraderie. They all seem to get along and we don't have any toxic players outside of a certain someone who was just released. Don't want anyone with a ton of baggage coming in and ruining that.

We need to build like the Warriors have. Or closer to home....the Astros.