I have a question for the anti-tankers... I thought giving more playing time to the bench was supposed to hurt the value of our players which would keep us from making that superstar trade. It seems to me that when you play your best 7-8 players in an effort to win at all costs, players like Bud, Hill, etc that start racking up the DNP-CDs are seeing their value drop through the floor. Add to that the overplaying of the best players is wearing out them out and their play becomes less than it could/should be. Doesn't this win-at-all-costs mentality actually lower the value of all our players? IMO, this has caused 1/2 the team to have no or negative value. The other 1/2 is struggling to "maintain" value. What GM is going to trade a superstar for our players? And what superstar is going to come here knowing that he must carry the team by putting in 40+ minutes a night - even against non-contending teams?
40+ minutes a night is a bit of an exaggeration, don't you think? Only 2 guys, Kyle and Kevin, are getting more than 32. At the end of the day there are 240 minutes a game to go around, and the "showcase value" of those minutes is basically constant unless you're going well past 35 (and even then, if it's a young player, they'll deal with it). (Now, if the question is just "should we drop Lowry's minutes by 3 a game based on the returns so far", then yes, 37 min/game as the team's motor seems to be wearing on him.)
The 40+ minutes was talking mainly about our all-star Lowry - which I would expect a true all-star would play in this tight rotation. And lately, the rotation is getting tighter and tighter (in order to win games) which is putting more stress on our stars lowering their value IMO. Add to that, how much value does the other 1/2 have when stacking up the DNP-CD? I thought the arguement was we can't tank (spread the PT across the board) because it would lower the value of our players so that we can't trade for or sign a star FA. I'm seeing the opposite effect.
Ok some points here: -The 09ers are valuable assets no matter how good or bad they are. By declining their options they have become expiring contracts. Playing Thabeet 20 mins a game won't do anything but lose you games. -You don't sell a superstar by playing young guys and losing games, you sell them by having a winning team, and making them think they're the missing piece to the puzzle. The teams with the brightest futures right now are the Jazz, Cleveland and the Raptors: Cleveland has Kyrie Irving and that other PF, and they are on lock for the lottery again next year. Jazz has Kanter and Favors, not to mention NJ's lottery pick next year. Raptors will get two lottery guys next year, their own pick+that international center they drafted last year at 4. Now, ask DH or DW if any of them want to play for those teams. -The tighter the rotation is the more PT the players have, and the more PT the players have the more they will be able to put up stats. Last game Lowry played horribly but because he was on the court a long time he was able to get 10 assists and 8 rebs, almost a double-double. I don't really think tis that important but stat boosting like makes playing with Lowry seem better.
Kyle can play that many because thats about how many star players play. Well? He is the Rockets star now. He can pretty much do things on a nightly basis that earned that label so far. Kevin Martin sometimes disapears late in games so thats why he also does not play those type of minutes or he would also because he is as close to a star as a player could possibly be without being one.
- Yes but does the 09ers value increase or decrease by DNP-CD? You could argue stays the same but I would say that it decreases because they are nothing but a dead contract in which the only person you can get a callback on is a bloated player that isn't earning his salary. When was the last time we used an expiring contract to pick up a good player? If you give some of them minutes in their proper position, they might actually have some value. - Do you think you can sell a superstar to join your team by giving him every indication that he will have to play extended minutes because the DNP-CD players can't be trusted? That's the whole reason they are leaving - they are tired of carrying the team and no ring. I don't think they'd see this as somewhere they can come to that's going to give them a break from the load and a good chance for a ring. Does DH or DW have the Rockets on their short list? - Depends on the stat. 2-16 isn't going to help your value if you keep that up. And when you put those kind of minutes on a player, you are increasing the risk for injury and injured players don't bring in the phone calls. I just don't see how anyone can say that the win-at-all-costs is not short sighted logic that we will pay a long term price for.
Not sure I see your logic, except that you want us to tank? People earn minutes, on a team trying to win, by playing consistently well. Playing those who earned it makes sense. Are our average minutes per starter per game above most teams' or something? Is it the coach's fault that the people who are losing minutes are not playing better in the minutes that they do get? Debatable, I guess, but bottom line is if you want to win, you give more minutes to your players who are playing the best. Unless your question is just "do we overplay our starters in terms of minutes" which would also be debatable, I don't think your argument is going to change the minds of those that agree with me when I say tanking is for losers.
A few points... 1) guys outside of our 8 man rotation arent gonna be the deal makers or breakers of any worthwhile trade... theyre jus filler if someone wants to take a flier or to even out trades... 2) Giving a questionable player time could help his value - or hurt it... everybody loves the 'mystery box'...every GM is looking for that untapped jewel... 3) When hoping to attract a superstar, you gotta put your best foot forward... Kyle pulling a triple double gets far more attention than 16-9-8 in 5 less minutes... I hate to say it, but helping our players 'pad their stats' may make us a more desireable destination for FAs... All that said, I do think we need to be careful... in this shortened season with games at a higher velocity we do need to give our main guys enough downtime to be able to produce at optimum level.
This. If I'm gonna trade for DH, they can pick any of the 8 players they want, except for the untouchables (K-low for me). If they want the fillers, then OK. Much better. Regarding playing time, well, wherever they (superstars) go, they would most likely end up with the same situation (except probably for the prime destinations or if the superstar really wants to play for that team). The trade will leave a big hole on the rotation and will probably require the superstar to play more minutes. It's up to the management to fix this through additional trades in the near future. If the management can't fix this, then expect bye-bye superstar again. :grin: Just my opinion.
I personally don't think it's possible to acquire a franchise changing superstar without drafting. I just don't see how we would ever land a game changer through trades. Chris Paul - Off the market Dwight Howard - Not interested in Houston Dwyane Wade - Off the market LeBron James - Off the market Blake Griffin - Off the market Deron Williams - Possible but probably not. Wants to play with another all-star. Kobe Bryant - Doubtful. He may demand a trade the way the Lakers are playing recently, if it continues into the year and becomes obvious nothing will change. We have decent young talent and draft picks to trade to LA. Of course Kobe is old now and we aren't in a position to "win now", even if we get Kobe.
Depends. Your robbing Peter to pay Paul here, but as an example - even though Bud might be the player they were looking at moving, maybe Parson's has that kind of value now to bring more value in a trade. A few things to consider - -The rotation players now are going to be the major pieces in a trade anyways. Benching Martin and Scola so players like TWill, and Flynn can get PT would destroy their value which has been built up through years of experience and skills to bring to another team. -The value of the 09 draft busts now actually could have just increased this season due to them now becoming nice expiring contracts.
I think not playing those guys are protecting our trade access by not exposing their worthlessness to other GMs.
While that may be true for the old NYKs Eddie Curry who was riding on a near max contract, I don't think that's true for these players. Not playing players like Hill and Bud may help the the team to win a game but it does not help their value in a trade.
100% agree. I think it very obvious that getting a star player through a trade is not going to happen. Saying we have a shot get Howard for anyone but Lowry is homerism to the nth degree. Even if you include Lowry, you still won't get the Magic to ok that deal. And getting one through FA is most likely not happening either regardless of the features of the new iPad 3.
I want us to win a championship and this team is not built for that. Not even close. Why do we need to burn out the players we do have and bench all others? So we can get another 14th pick to pump up his stats in the D-League? I'm not saying losing on purpose but I think with this schedule on this season you play all players some minutes (alternate back-to-back nights so they can play some significant minutes). You will find out that some players actually improve over time. But put them in the perpetual DNP-CD list and you know if you really do have something. No preseason, new coach and compressed schedule is not enough time to see what you have. Winning at all costs is going to have a long term negative affect. It won't attract the FAs. It won't increase your player values to trade for a better FA. And it won't give you anything more than a mediocre pick in which you can mantain your "team that you hope to make the playoffs this year" status.
- I don't think maintaining the starters minutes w/25-30 minutes per night is going to destroy their value. I think playing them 35-40+ minutes per night is doing more damage than good. Personally, I'd keep the starter minutes as constant as I could (I know matchup might throw that out the window on some nights) but I'd alternate the bench on the back-to-back so they could see some significant burn time to see if they actually improve. This schedule leaves little time for real practice and the longer someone rides the bench the less likely you are to actually dig that nugget out of them. - Checking the rosters of the teams that might want to unload an overpaid player for expirings doesn't give me that same optimistic hope you have. Do you think trading them for Turkoglu or Brand is a good move? I say theirs a good 80% chance that we are the ones that let those contracts expire.
