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Will we go to war with Iran?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by mc mark, Mar 16, 2006.

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Will we go to war with Iran?

  1. Yes

    32.7%
  2. No

    67.3%
  1. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    Seems like we're already at war with Iran --

    On Cheney, Rumsfeld order, US outsourcing special ops, intelligence to Iraq terror group, intelligence officials say

    Larisa Alexandrovna
    Published: Thursday April 13, 2006

    The Pentagon is bypassing official US intelligence channels and turning to a dangerous and unruly cast of characters in order to create strife in Iran in preparation for any possible attack, former and current intelligence officials say.

    One of the operational assets being used by the Defense Department is a right-wing terrorist organization known as Mujahedeen-e Khalq (MEK), which is being “run” in two southern regional areas of Iran, both bordering Pakistan. They are Balucistan, a Sunni stronghold, and Khuzestan, a Shia region where a series of recent attacks has left many dead and hundreds injured in the last three months.

    One former counterintelligence official, who wished to remain anonymous due to the sensitivity of the information, describes the Pentagon as pushing MEK shortly after the invasion of Iraq in 2003. The drive to use the insurgent group was said to have been advanced by the Pentagon under the influence of the Vice President’s office and opposed by the State Department, National Security Council and then-National Security Advisor, Condoleezza Rice.

    “The MEK is run by a brother and sister who were given bases in northern Baghdad by Saddam,” the intelligence official told RAW STORY. “The US army secured a key MEK facility 60 miles northwest of Baghdad shortly after the 2003 invasion, but they did not secure the MEK and let them basically be because [then Deputy Defense Secretary Paul] Wolfowitz was thinking ahead to Iran.”

    Another former intelligence official added that the US military had detained as many as 3,500 members of MEK at Iraq’s Camp Ashraf since the start of the war, including the highest level ranking MEK leaders. Ashraf is about 60 miles west of the Iranian border.

    This intelligence official, wishing to remain anonymous, confirmed the policy tensions and also described them as most departments on one side and the Pentegon on the other.

    “We disarmed [the MEK] of major weapons but not small arms. [Secretary of Defense Donald] Rumsfeld was pushing to use them as a military special ops team, but policy infighting between their camp and Condi, but she was able to fight them off for a while,” said the intelligence official. According to still another intelligence source, the policy infighting ended last year when Donald Rumsfeld, under pressure from Vice President Cheney, came up with a plan to “convert” the MEK by having them simply quit their organization.

    “These guys are nuts,” this intelligence source said. “Cambone and those guys made MEK members swear an oath to Democracy and resign from the MEK and then our guys incorporated them into their unit and trained them.”

    Stephen Cambone is the Undersecretary of Defense Intelligence. His office did not return calls for comment.

    According to all three intelligence sources, military and intelligence officials alike were alarmed that instead of securing a known terrorist organization, which has been responsible for acts of terror against Iranian targets and individuals all over the world – including US civilian and military casualties – Rumsfeld under instructions from Cheney, began using the group on special ops missions into Iran to pave the way for a potential Iran strike.

    “They are doing whatever they want, no oversight at all,” one intelligence source said.

    Indeed, Saddam Hussein himself had used the MEK for acts of terror against non-Sunni Muslims and had assigned domestic security detail to the MEK as a way of policing dissent among his own people. It was under the guidance of MEK ‘policing’ that Iraqi citizens who were not Sunni were routinely tortured, attacked and arrested.

    Although the specifics of what the MEK is being used for remain unclear, a UN official close to the Security Council explained that the newly renamed MEK soldiers are being run instead of military advance teams, committing acts of violence in hopes of staging an insurgency of the Iranian Sunni population.

    “We are already at war,” the UN official told RAW STORY.

    Asked how long the MEK agents have been active in the region under the guidance of the US military civilian leadership, the UN official explained that the clandestine war had been going on for roughly a year and included unmanned drones run jointly by several agencies.

    In a stunning repeat of pre-war Iraq activities, the Bush administration continues to publicly call for action and pursue diplomatic solutions to allegations that Iran is bomb-ready. Behind the scenes, however, the administration is already well underway and engaged in ground operations in Iran.

    The British, however, are less enthused about a strike in Iran. British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw has called an American strike on Iran “inconceivable,” while Prime Minister Tony Blair has said he’s keeping all his options open. Asked about the MEK, a senior British intelligence official said that the Brits are not yet sure of what the situation on Iran’s southern border is, but vehemently condemned any joint activity with the terrorist organization.

    “We don’t know who precisely is carrying out those attacks in the south but we believe it is MEK,” the British official said.

    When asked if the US military is running the MEK, the source was careful to indicate that while there is a US unit in Iran gathering information, it’s difficult to say if they are in any way involved with MEK.

    “The people who are inside Iran are from a US Special mission unit,” the source explained. “They are called by codenames, but would not be involved in the bomb blasts. They want to get in, get the intelligence and go out with anyone knowing they have been there. But the bomb blasts might be diversions away from the operations by this US special mission unit. The British are definitely not involved in any of this.”

    Moreover, the British official expressed that any operations with MEK would violate their own military code and would absolutely not be tolerated.

    “We have very strict rules and can’t go consorting with terrorists," the official added. "We did it in Northern Ireland. No more.”

    http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/US_outsourcing_special_operations_intelligence_gathering_0413.html
     
  2. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    Time is of the essence. We must do something before mid-October 2006. If diplomacy does not work as we define it, Iran will get a dose of Shock and Awe.

     
  3. Saint Louis

    Saint Louis Member

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    16 days until the bombs start to fall? New moon on April 27th. Stealth bombers and fighters love flying in total darkness.

    link

    Iran Could Produce Nuclear Bomb in 16 Days, U.S. Says (Update2)
    April 12 (Bloomberg) -- Iran, defying United Nations Security Council demands to halt its nuclear program, may be capable of making a nuclear bomb within 16 days, a U.S. State Department official said.

    Iran will move to ``industrial scale'' uranium enrichment involving 54,000 centrifuges at its Natanz plant, the Associated Press quoted deputy nuclear chief Mohammad Saeedi as telling state-run television today.

    ``Using those 50,000 centrifuges they could produce enough highly enriched uranium for a nuclear weapon in 16 days,'' Stephen Rademaker, U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for International Security and Nonproliferation, told reporters today in Moscow.

    Rademaker was reacting to a statement by Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who said yesterday the country had succeeded in enriching uranium on a small scale for the first time, using 164 centrifuges. That announcement defies demands by the UN Security Council that Iran shut down its nuclear program this month.

    The U.S. fears Iran is pursuing a nuclear program to make weapons, while Iran says it is intent on purely civilian purposes, to provide energy. Saeedi said 54,000 centrifuges will be able to enrich uranium to provide fuel for a 1,000-megawat nuclear power plant similar to the one Russia is finishing in southern Iran, AP reported.

    ``It was a deeply disappointing announcement,'' Rademaker said of Ahmadinejad's statement.

    Weapons-Grade Uranium

    Rademaker said the technology to enrich uranium to a low level could also be used to make weapons-grade uranium, saying that it would take a little over 13 years to produce enough highly enriched uranium for a nuclear weapon with the 164 centrifuges currently in use. The process involves placing uranium hexafluoride gas in a series of rotating drums or cylinders known as centrifuges that run at high speeds to extract weapons grade uranium.

    Iran has informed the Vienna-based International Atomic Energy Agency that it plans to construct 3,000 centrifuges at Natanz next year, Rademaker said.

    ``We calculate that a 3,000-machine cascade could produce enough uranium to build a nuclear weapon within 271 days,'' he said.

    While the U.S. has concerns over Iran's nuclear program, Rademaker said ``there certainly has been no decision on the part of my government'' to use force if Iran refuses to obey the UN Security Council demand that it shuts down its nuclear program.

    Rademaker is in Moscow for a meeting of his counterparts from the Group of Eight wealthy industrialized countries. Russia chairs the G-8 this year.

    China is concerned about Iran's decision to accelerate uranium enrichment and wants the government in Tehran to heed international criticism of the move, Wang Guangya, China's ambassador to the United Nations said.



    To contact the reporter on this story:
    Sebastian Alison in Moscow at Salison1@bloomberg.net.
    Last Updated: April 12, 2006 12:19 EDT
     
  4. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    can someone tell me why the U.S. has the right to tell Iran to not have missiles? i assume its because of a violent act of theres in the past, but how does that make them any different then the U.S. ?
     
  5. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    Man, what a wierd article.

    Start with the title, then read the quote by Rademaker and those are two different things.

    Also, Iran says it will use 50,000 centrifuges, but reading the article I posted just above, those aren't anywhere close to being operational, yet Rademaker's quote assumes those 50,000 centrifuges are working today.

    Only when we get down in the story do we learn that Iran only has 164 installed and using them, it would take 13 years to produce the enriched uranium needed.

    There's other wierdness in this article, but really, you have an administration guy making what I can only assume are deliberately misleading comments... while in the other article you have a bunch of experts saying the timeframe is years, not days.
     
  6. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    at this point it's not merely the US. the UN is much more "together" on this issue, as best I can tell, than they were on Iraq. the rest of the world is taking this far more seriously.
     
  7. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    Maybe we're sending in the A TEAM.
    [​IMG]
     
  8. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    The threat of a Iranian Bomb is certainly more real than the threat of WMDs in Iraq, but there is no reason for a "crisis" at this time except for the fact that the Bush Administartion wants one. I suspect that the reason the world community is a little more together on this issue is because everyone recognizes the folly of the current US position and is doing everything possible to keep us from screwing up the Middle East even more... and if that means putting pressure on Iran to fold on their rhetoric early enough to circumvent a US strike, that's what they're going to do... it's not like we would currently be receptive to any rational argument on the issue.
     
  9. Surfguy

    Surfguy Member

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    "Our answer to those who are angry about Iran obtaining the full nuclear cycle is one phrase. We say: 'Be angry and die of this anger'," Ahmadinejad was quoted as saying by Iran's IRNA news agency.

    If we won't attack Iran, then can we at least take this guy out with Special Ops forces or something?
     
  10. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    Oh, yes... with each new bit of info, the crisis becomes more critical...

     
  11. rezdawg

    rezdawg Member

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    I dont know much about this quote, but my guess is that he said this in Farsi, not english. When you directly translate another language, it may not come out exactly how it appears. If he said this in Farsi, then his meaning was probably something along the lines of...if you are angry about Iran obtaining the full nuclear cycle, then you will take that anger with you to the grave...meaning that they will continue as planned and that anger will live with the people until they die.

    Sura faints.
     
  12. CreepyFloyd

    CreepyFloyd Member

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    both iran and the us have an interest in not disrupting the status quo, because then they would have nobody to demonize in order to deflect attention away from domestic issues :D
     
  13. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    There is a media war going on right now. It is not going to be reported correctly.
     
  14. blazer_ben

    blazer_ben Rookie

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    Since When has IRNA*( state run fabrication spining media) ever told anything that remotely resembels the truth?...

    BTW, The MEK are the biggest traitors ever. if bush wants to win support of the iranian nation, he would urgently cut all contact with these criminals. this are the same people who helped the invaders of my beloved country. no true iranian will ever work with suck maggets.
     
  15. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    Heh...to speculators, saber rattling from Bush and Iran is worse than a natural disaster.

    Big oil is really licking its chops.
     
    #75 Invisible Fan, Apr 14, 2006
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2006
  16. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    Retired colonel claims U.S. military operations are already 'underway' in Iran

    Ron Brynaert
    Published: Saturday April 15, 2006

    During an interview on CNN Friday night, retired U.S. Air Force Colonel Sam Gardiner claimed that U.S. military operations are already 'underway' inside Iran, RAW STORY has found.

    "I would say -- and this may shock some -- I think the decision has been made and military operations are under way," Col. Gardiner told CNN International anchor Jim Clancy (as noted by Digby at the blog Hullabaloo).

    Gardiner, who designed a war game in November of 2004 for Atlantic Magazine ("Will Iran be next?") which simulated "preparations for a U.S. assault on Iran," also claimed that Aliasghar Soltaniyeh, the Iranian ambassador to the United Nation's International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), told him a few weeks ago that units who had attacked the Revolutionary Guard had been captured and confessed to working with Americans.

    "The secretary point is, the Iranians have been saying American military troops are in there, have been saying it for almost a year," Gardiner said. "I was in Berlin two weeks ago, sat next to the ambassador, the Iranian ambassador to the IAEA. And I said, 'Hey, I hear you're accusing Americans of being in there operating with some of the units that have shot up revolution guard units.'"

    "He said, quite frankly, 'Yes, we know they are. We've captured some of the units, and they've confessed to working with the Americans,'" said the retired Air Force colonel.

    http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Retired_colonel_claims_U.S._Military_operations_0415.html
     
  17. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    Richard Clarke and buddy on Iran...

    Billmon on the above op-ed...
    So, after reading MCM's post and looking at this, I can't believe it's 1 hour until Easter and I'm thinking of this song...

    Living easy, living free
    Season ticket on a one-way ride
    Asking nothing, leave me be
    Taking everything in my stride
    Don't need reason, don't need rhyme
    Ain't nothing I would rather do
    Going down, party time
    My friends are gonna be there too

    I'm on the highway to hell

    No stop signs, speed limit
    Nobody's gonna slow me down
    Like a wheel, gonna spin it
    Nobody's gonna mess me round
    Hey Satan, payin' my dues
    Playing in a rocking band
    Hey Momma, look at me
    I'm on my way to the promised land

    I'm on the highway to hell
    (Don't stop me)

    And I'm going down, all the way down
    I'm on the highway to hell
     
  18. CreepyFloyd

    CreepyFloyd Member

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    its funny how the us claims to be fighting a war on terror, but at the same time is making aggrements and training a bonafide terrorist organization, the mek, which is recognized as such by the us, eu, and iran.....definitely an example of us supporting/sponsorship of terrorism

    iran would be well within their rights to launch some of their shahab missiles and take out those terrorist training camps that the us and mko are using in iraq

    even if the world is united, it doesnt mean that they're right, iran hasnt done anything illegal and has been willing to make many compromises....europe doesnt want to see another political confrontation with the us, see:

    http://news.ft.com/cms/s/0cfd2c90-1...000e2511c8.html

    and the iranian position has been clear all along:

    http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/04...ion/edzarif.php

    https://registration.ft.com/registr...00779e2340.html

    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HB07Ak01.html

    the west or the so-called international community has no case
     
  19. blazer_ben

    blazer_ben Rookie

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    I agree with creepyfloyd here. MEK are the lowest life form you can imagine. there loyalty is for sale 24/7. there a cult by a woman who looks like a dog. mojahedin kharkosse...... ;)
     
  20. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    Have you been getting a good workout with this:
    [​IMG]
     

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