Will U.S.A. and China become good partners in future?

how about IDEALISM?

many of these guys pour their life savings into these travels. they may be misinformed, but you've gotta admire their activism.

put in another way, the same criticism you've made can be made against any christian missionaries or international salvation army workers. even though i'm not christian, i certainly don't feel they're "fools".

 

Actually, I've rarely spoken about the oil angle because I don't think it's conclusive at this point...I am merely pointing out that those who think it's conclusive the other way are delluding themselves.

And, in that there was a discussion about our prioritization of economic issues above humanitarian issues, Iraq was mentioned, and we are currently embroiled in a war that might be for humatarian issues or might be for economic issues, I thought it was relevant, and hardly a derailment.

But if you think my last post is indicative of my posts in the past, you are wrong. I have pretty much avoided the oil argument.

 

I didn't claim that you said it specifically, just that it's been discussed in many threads ... repeatedly.

Also, I understand the segue, but this is a can o'beans that can sink any thread. If that was your goal, go right ahead. It's a shame, since the original topic was deserving of it's own.

 

Missionaries and Peace Corps are a different animal. These young protesters fighting police are goofballs. Most of those protesters are college age. Where are they getting the $1,000 plane tickets from? Where are they getting the money to subsist while in these foreign lands? When I was in college, I was eating ramen and hot dog for dinner everyday. Where are these kids getting their funding? Daddy and mommy would die if they found out. My guess would be charities such as the Tibetan House, Hamas, Mohammed Oil Field King, XYZ Freedom, Linux, etc.

Then there are the older crowd. Sane human beings do not leave their jobs and family behind to travel 10,000 miles to wave banners and chant slogans. That Korean farmer who committed suicide in Mexico last month and others who burn themselves are either crazy or was compensated to do so. It doesn't make sense that a Korean farmer who's upset with US farm subsidies would buy that ticket to travel to Cancun to kill himself. There's gotta be more to it than idealism.

 

the kid got a part time job just to pay for a ticket to beijing. he had a huge sob story when he got back on campus, judging by what he wrote, he has some messed up views on asians believing that they are all mystical taoists on the inside with a yinyang in their brains. he obviously has been watching too many movies.

and i'll agree with Lil that its not right to be persecuted for one's beliefs and political views, but first, the US has had a history of the same thing on various minority groups including the patriot act today. second, the falun gong group has committed cyber terrorism and infiltrated chinese satellites, any such threat to the authority will recieve a response. my point is, while it may be wrong to us morally , i dont think we, as a country, have the right to get involved or criticize too much concerning our own history. its like the credibility of a priest is lost when you find out that he molested kids in the past, a lot of countries in the world have this feeling when the US piously criticizes their actions.

 

To understand the banning of Falun Gong, there is several things that outsiders must understand about China and FLG:

1. China is very open to religions but not religious organizations. Chinese are free to believe in Christian, Buddhism, Islam and any other recognized religion throughout the world. However, when it comes to organized activities by a religious group, the Chinese government insists such activities go under governmental monitor. This is done for two things, 1, as said the ability of organize and control masses is monopolized by CCP to avoid political competition, 2, Throughout history religion is dangerous when people are organized and gets involved in politics under its claim, ranging from crusaders, establishing theocracy(Tibet) to Al Queda.

This means, if it's only the ability of mobilizing the masses that drives CCP's banning, they do not need to go after the doctrine of FLG and stop the spread of such belief, which they did. They would only have to ban the organization and leave the religion itself intact. The CCP has no problem with all other religions' doctrine but FLG's, which should raise an eyebrow.

2. FLG isn't a established religion, by established I mean followed by massive numbers of people throughout centuries. FLG sprang out of nowhere about a decade ago, now FLG claims that it has about 100 millions members in China, which, of course, is grossly exaggerated. To put things in perspective, CCP only has about seventy million members in China after 54 years of reigning, and it's impossible for 1 out of every 13 Chinese to be FLG members out of my personal experience. FLG has about 20 million members in China, according to CCP estimation, which is still a lot considering its extremely short history.

3. FLG's doctrine is based on a mix of Qi Gong, Buddhism and some other influences. Qi Gong is the collective name for hundreds of meditation methods in China that aims at improving health and mental state. Qi Gong is mental processes that direct the flow of Qi,an unproven imaginary energy in human body that's imperative for vitality, within the body. Some Qi Gong methods are hundreds of years old, some newly invented. FLG is invented by its leader, Lee Hong Zhi, about a decade ago.

4. The doctrine of FLG is also based on personal worshipping of its founder and leader, Lee Hong Zhi, in order to reinforce of the effectiveness of the Qi Gong part. Lee presents him as a messenger from the universe, knowing everything about the universe better than any scientist, although I'm not sure what story he tells his disciples in private to justify that, cause I didn't get it reading his works. All I read was absurd conjectures about the working of universe that was said in absolute tone, and some lame implications that Lee is somehow connected with Buddha. The Qi Gong part of FLG, of course, is the grand way of connecting oneself to the ultimate core of the whole universe, resulting in vitality and a shot at immortality, as long as members follow his instructions, because following his path is the only way to achieve higher levels in such practice.

5. Since trust towards the doctrine of FLG is so interwined with personal worship and Qi Gong. Ill complications inevitablly come. People who practices any Qi Gong, including FLG, expects improvement in their body and mental state. FLG positions itself as the gateway to the underlying principles of universe, and consequently elevate the effect of FLG to a new found height. Not only it improves conditions, a person who practices FLG well enough, in the mysterious high level is said to be immune to illnesses, and FLG cures illnesses if a member continue its practice following exactly . According to CCP, Lee instructed members to not go for medication when they got ill, just keeping practice and illness will go away.

Qi Gong enjoyed its revival in China in the 80's, and many men profited by inventing new Qi Gong methods. They sold books and held seminars. Lee Hong Zhi was one of them. Since the fundamental basis for Qi Gong, the mysterious Qi, is an unproven concept, and its workings not known scientifically, Qi Gong is largely conjectures itself. Its prevalance in China is sometimes built on superstition. I don't know if Qi Gong is effective in its own right, but I do know Qi Gong practice has a placebo effect, people do think they feel better after practicing it. However, none of other Qi Gong has elevated itself to the height of being the grand answer to human lives, which FLG did.

Since CCP has little credibility internationally, I guess FLG will have its way spreading across the world. I also expect FLG adapt its doctrine to seem more moderate to the outsiders. I don't trust CCP in everything it says, but I do know FLG is something that I don't want myself and my relatives to come across, after I read part of its original Chinese scripts about four years ago in America, after several FLG members burned themselves alive in Tiananmen square in protest of the banning. I understand sometimes people are willing to sacrifice their lives for their belief, but self immolation is going too far.

 

I hope so. The U.S. needs China much more than China needs the U.S. -- especially over the next 100 years.

 

damn, panda! that was a great post!

 

Thanks. I wish I had your command of English to convey my thoughts better.

 

Hell of a post Panda. I'm wondering what do you major in while studying in the US? Some sort of business-related major?

 

Just curious, Panda... who was threatened by the government of Tibet? China?

The people of Tibet didn't consider that government to be a threat, from everything I have read. It enjoyed widespread support.

I agree that theocracies, in general, are a bad idea. I just think a democratic process is the way to reform them, not imposed rule by another power. And that includes the United States, unless the government actively aided and abetted terrorist groups who attacked this country or attacked the US directly... which would include the Taliban.

I don't think Tibet attacked China. Of course, it is my belief that Tibet should have been allowed to enjoy it's freedom. Many Chinese may consider it part of China and only worthy of assimulation... and resistance to that rule "an attack on China".

By the way, I wish China luck with it's upcoming space flight.

 

Yep, business management makes wise decision makers.

 

Good question Deckard, and thanks for your good Karma.

On the Tibet issue, I wonder what's your justification on the Americans conquering the native Indians and annexing their land? I think it's kind of farfetched to say that was a democratic process before, during, and immediately after the conquest, since the Indians, along with other minorities, didn't have political rights initially.

Not dodging your questions, but the Tibet issue is a complicated one, after all for the most part Tibet has been China's neighbour for thousands of years, and we had our fare share of mischief between each other. Without establishing a clear standard, I'm afraid we'll go in circle and circle on this issue.

 

well, I think the most important thing to do is to avoid being
enenmy. Whether we could be good partner, only god knows.
To keep an acceptable distance is the best choice since there're
too many differences between usa and china now. I'm not
optimistic, maybe prejudice and hostility can only disappear with
time, or our bodies. Give the descendants right of thinking and
choice of choosing, they could do better than us.