Congratulations Jeff, you just defined the Libertarian party to a tea! Why don't those Republican congressmen/women and senators just switch parties? ------------------ Everything you do, effects everything that is.
Beacuase in parts of the world where there is extreme overpopulation, ala China and India, women tend to have only boys, and often abort the girls. Thus, there is now more men in the world than women. ------------------
Well, that makes me feel better. With all the attention paid to the extremes, it's hard to feel welcome anywhere. I wish the moderates would get together and start exercising their power. ------------------ Houston Sports Board The Anti-Bud Adams Page
Its going to happen someday paige. I'm just waiting for the first "internet" president! Someday there is going to be a candidate with a grassroots campaign ran exclusively over the internet. No soft money, no business contributions. Just people! People speaking up and letting a massive voice be heard. Wouldn't that be a bite in the ass to the powers that be? Wouldn't that be something? ------------------ Everything you do, effects everything that is.
NOTE: I won't delete my post since that's cheating-- I'll leave it here-- but I missed the boat on this one as outlaw pointed out. He meant switching from the GOP to the LP, not the GOP to the Democratic Party. Sorry! ------------------ "Corpses are icky." --Chris Robinson [This message has been edited by BrianKagy (edited February 15, 2001).]
alright, i'll bite. i am 100% FOR the ban on homosexual marriages. my reasons, mainly religious. i am not, however, a christian. i'm muslim, and homosexuality is a great sin, because -it goes against the natural creation of God. everything in nature is created in pairs. for humans, this means male and female. this is why reproduction is from male/female intercourse, not otherwise. also, its just disgusting. and no matter how much you might approve of homosexuals getting married and stuff, you cannot argue with the fact that its disgusting and unhealthy. medical studies prove that anal sex can create a lot of problems because of the blood and stuff involved. i also find it to be just immoral. how would you react if your father was gay? or your son? i dont think many of you would be very approving of it, much less ENCOURAGING them to go out and date ppl of the same sex, etc. also, where does it stop? next thing you know, they'll be allowed to adopt children. step back from your liberal euphoria and seriously think for a second, if you put your baby up for adoption, would you REALLY want that child being raised by a gay couple? enough of the moral/religious stuff for now. politically (and im pretty shaky on this stuff as i read about this a while back and my memory isnt serving me too well at the moment): it also creates other problems, namely tax revenue. anyone who's done their taxes knows if you list a dependent, you get a tax break. the more marriages, the more deductions. this means that any 2 guys who are living together just get married, mark each other off, and now they dont have to pay anything to the govt. adn i know im gonna get blasted for this one, but i think its true, homosexuality is a CHOICE. it is not something thats forced upon anyone. no one is BORN gay. its a lifestyle that these people choose for whatever reason (psychological, self esteem, acceptance... whatever, irrelevent) just think about it, how do you get BORN into homosexuality? do you turn 13 one day, go through puberty, and go, oh wow im gay? but anyways, to sum it up. my main reason of course is just from the morality point of view. look at all the filth in this country, prostitution, transvestites, p*rnography, homosexuality, unwed mothers, teen pregnancies, aids, stds etc etc etc. all of these are products from the so called "sexual revolution" that is destroying the moral fiber of the country. i find it impossible for anyone to claim to be a staunch supporter of "high morals, family values" and at the same time "homosexual marriages" ------------------ http://members.fortunecity.com/omar369
Not necessarily. Libertarians are NOT pro environment. They support the idea of allowing business to pretty much do what they want. They also do not support ANY form of social welfare. While that doesn't always work for Republicans, the new breed fall into the "socially moderate to liberal" category. That also doesn't fit with the pro capital punishment and pro guns stance of the LP. I have no problem with the LP, but every poll from Fox News to CNN shows that most Americans fall right in the middle of the political spectrum - strongly pro choice, strongly pro gun control, slightly pro gay rights, slightly pro death penalty, strongly pro environment, strongly pro consumer rights, fairly evenly split on social welfare (pro helping the homeless and children but anti on most everything else), strongly pro campaign reform, pro term limits, slightly pro "moment of silence" in school, strongly anti decriminalization of drugs, and so on. Most Americans feelings on things float back and forth between conservatism and liberalism. We all want freedom but Americans don't want to be free of all government. The Greens don't have mass appeal for the same reason Libertarians don't. The problem is that there isn't any one party that appeals to the majority of Americans. We saw that in evidence in the presidential elections. IMO, it will take a new party to unite people. Think about it. Probably the most well-liked guy in politics today is Collen Powell. His stances don't fit the model of the Republicans, Democrats, Libertarians or Greens. It will take someone with that kind of broad mass appeal to bring EVERYONE together. Frankly, I'd be happy to compromise on SOME issues if others weren't trounced on at the same time. ------------------ Me fail English? That's unpossible.
PS: mark, that's awfully naive. The dirty little secret behind why most people vote for one party or another is the likelihood that some of that government cash will come tumbling their way. The GOP and Democrats are able to maintain the two-party system because they're the only two parties able to motivate voters by promising and delivering goodies like capital gains tax cuts, naval bases, or social programs. The large political donors know that, so the overwhelming bulk of their donations go to those parties, allowing the two main parties to continue to win elections, make promises, and keep enough of them to maintain voter loyalty. Pretty nasty circle. Hard to see a way out of it. ------------------ "Corpses are icky." --Chris Robinson
Jamma, gays are (contrary to what ACT UP would tell you) four to six percent of the adult population in America. Of that four to six percent, what percent would choose to marry if they could? I think it'd be a miniscule enough amount so as not to dramatically affect the tax coffers. As for behavior being "disgusting", I won't argue with you except to say that doesn't mean it should be illegal. Some people find oral sex disgusting, but it's permissible between two consenting adults. Except in Alabama.
how would you react if your father was gay? or your son? i dont think many of you would be very approving of it, much less ENCOURAGING them to go out and date ppl of the same sex, etc. I would love them the same way I love people now. I would encourage whatever they felt was best for them and made them happy. And, yes, I can argue with the fact that it is disgusting and unhealthy. I know lots of people who are gay who are incredibly healthy and not the least bit disgusting. Furthermore, I would have absolutely NO problem allowing my child to be babysat or raised by gay men or women. Some of the most loving people I've ever met are gay. I respect your right to believe what you will and to practice whatever religion you see fit. I do the same. However, don't think that you speak for the majority of us. ------------------ Me fail English? That's unpossible.
jamma34, you're entitled to your opinion but how can you really think homosexuality is a choice? did you make a choice to be heterosexual? if you had to, could you choose to be homosexual right now? I personally never made a choice. It's just who I am. Would I become heterosexual if I could? Yes. Do I think that it's possible? No. ------------------
i thought we were talking about switching to the Libertarians not the Democrats. I said that because the Repubs have a lot of money and the Libertarians do not. as you said in your last post, money makes the political world go around. ------------------
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Show me a properly-sampled poll with properly phrased questions that shows Americans are: * Strongly pro choice * Strongly pro gun control * Slightly pro gay rights * Strongly pro environment * Strongly pro consumer rights * Strongly pro campaign reform My guess is that the majority of these polls were sponsored by advocacy groups and worded in such a way to guarantee a result. If I poll 100 people leaving a K-Mart and ask them, "Do you agree or disagree that companies should not be able to intentionaly rip off or harm consumers?", I'd get 98 "agrees". If I poll 100 people and ask "Do you agree or disagree that we should do whatever we can to try to save the planet for our children?", again, I'd get 98 agrees. If either poll were accurately sampled and worded in such a way to make the recipient aware of the complexity of the issues, I doubt very seriously that I'd get a "strong majority" to agree that we should implement the proposals of the advocacy groups to remedy those issues. In other words, most people would like cleaner air and safer cars, but they think Ralph Nader's anti-business, anti-capitalism agenda is far too extreme a way in which to pursue those things. So Nader and the Greens can bluster all they want about the "overwhelming" support for their positions, but the evidence of support is to the contrary. ------------------ "Corpses are icky." --Chris Robinson
How did I make up a ridiculous analogy? You're playing w/ a very simple argument, the naturalistic fallacy. I suppose in your view, a pecker and a vagina have purposes. I happen to enjoy what I do w/ my unit, but I'm not living up to the purpose that you have dedicated for it. I apologize if it goes AWOL, but I'm not having kids anytime soon. BTW... you have to concede that in your view that Jeff and his wife and my wife and I are as immoral creatures as outlaw. Essentially the naturalist says that since something does exist that it ought to exist. Oftentimes these people use the terms natural and unnatural. Other than the fact that these people neglect the fact that homosexuality is natural, they also don't recognize that there are plenty of unnatural things that they accept, i.e. planes, televisions, etc.. There are also natural things, i.e. rape, incest and murder that these people reject. Have at it w/ your views, but I'm just asking that you be careful when you equate 'natural' w/ good and 'unnatural' w/ bad. For more information, look up the naturalistic fallacy (I'm going to bed). p.s. if I merely don't see that your first premise is "jamma's interpretation of god is true", then my bad... b/c I can't do anything to convince you otherwise. I try to only involve myself in arguments w/ empirical premises. ------------------ Good night everyone, Canadian or American. Just remember that we're all bound together by basketball, the internet and the mullet. (My attempts at trying to sooth over an international incident).
Geez! We are people people! Jamma if you met outlaw now, would you think any less of him because of what you know about his sexuality? Outlaw, by the same token, knowing Jamma's view of Homosexuality, would you be a little guarded? It's the same with any point of view. Can Rocketman95 and Brian K get along if they looked past their political views? Can Heypartner and Jeff sit down to a meal, given each others taste in food? My point being, I just don't understand this idea of identifying someone by his or her sexuality. Its such a small fraction of who we are. Sex is a part of who we are! Not what we are. We should celebrate and appreciate our differences. Look beyond your own narrow outlook and see the world in wonder! And to think that what goes on in the bedroom has any bearing on someone else's life if just ridiculous. Homosexuality being a choice or inbred is beside the point. Why would you care? Why would anyone care? Look at the person! See them for who they are. Now after opening your heart and making an effort see past your own fears and phobias and expectations; I bet you just might surprise yourself. Why is this concept so hard to embrace? Why? ------------------ Everything you do, effects everything that is.
Oh man, what a mass of complexes you have, jamma. I wish I'd been here from the beginning of this. Explain asexual reproduction in earthworms. No male, no female...thus your "everything in nature occurs in pairs" theory is wrong. What blood? I've been married for 14 years, and have on occasion, engaged in anal sex with my wife. Never has there been any blood,nor any adverse health effects whatsoever. My brother is gay. He struggled for two years before he told me about it. You know what? I was mad as hell he took so long! After he told me, I took one look at him and realized he was NO different than the man I knew before he told me. I love him just as much as always...so do my Mom, Dad, sisters, and his own son. SO what!? Are a loving gay couple somehow worse parents than the crackwhores who gave birth to the child? And what of people like my brother, who had a child before he quit denying his sexuality? Did he suddenly become a "bad example" because he came out of the closet? If it meant a better life than the one I could not, for whatever reason, give to the child, then hell yes! That's just plain selfish and stupid. Ugh! I can't go on anymore. Why am I arguing this with you? I will say this to you as a warning....You talk like this about gays to my face, and I may not be able to control myself. I'll defend my family by whatever means necessary. ------------------ Behad Sergeant at Arms of the Clutch BBS
mc mark, Your suggestion that we should "embrace a concept" would lead us to deviant sexual behavior and I will not support that. I abstain from that embrace, thank you! ------------------ Big A, little a bouncing B, The System might have got you, but it won't get me.
Rimmy I'm not advocating embracing the concept of homosexuality, I'm advocating embracing the concept of acceptance of differences. ------------------ Everything you do, effects everything that is.
