If I have a three-way with two other women, are they comitting deviant sexual acts according to the Texas Penal Code? Am I? I haven't had a three-way yet, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed, and if I do have a three-way, I'd like to know if I'm Breakin' the Law, Breakin' the Law. ------------------ The Rockets will be the NBA champions. Believe.
outlaw, According to "Survival of the Fittest" ideas, the fittest is simply those who procreate (i.e., those who pass their genes on). The unfit will be wiped out, along with their inferior genetic material. The fittest go on to produce offspring. Those who are infertile are, by definition, not the fittest. Of course, all of that presumes Darwin was correct. What I'm trying to say is that Timing's question is still valid. ------------------ The sky is falling! [This message has been edited by TraJ (edited February 15, 2001).]
hilarious pew-dill-for. Jamma, I'm not sure I understand what your view is... Is it immoral for me to take a plane or a car somewhere? Cars seem to be unnatural (at least in your view, I can argue that if it exists, it's natural... but I digress) and yet I use one constantly. Ooohhhh... pushing on the gas. Ughhhghhh, sliding into tiptronic. Or is your view closer to Juan's description (I doubt it's his view) that the organs have a purpose that isn't being exploited in a homosexual relationship. In your view, are my wife and I doing an immoral act when we 'wiggle' w/ no intent to procreate? ------------------ Good night everyone, Canadian or American. Just remember that we're all bound together by basketball, the internet and the mullet. (My attempts at trying to sooth over an international incident).
alright here we go first of all, as for marriage being a religious institution, im not sure what religions you are referring to in particular, i know its not all of them. in islam at least, marriage is a very IMPORTANT part of the religion. you cant even like shake hands with anyone of the opposite sex. only after you are married. this is to prevent exactly what you see now... single parenting, all that crap. one of the goals of marriage is to procreate. last time i checked, this isnt possible if its just 2 guys engaging in oral or anal sex. outlaw, i think you said something along the lines of 'reproduction is bad because then there are more people to take away the resources' if you really feel that way, you should go on a murderous rampage and then kill yourself. why do you have any more right to these resources than anyone else on the planet? about it being natural, im siding with juan on that one. achebe, i think youre just making up a ridiculous analogy that doesnt really fit. by nature, i mean this is the natural state of man. boys have a *****. girls have a vagina. when you put one into the other, you reproduce, relieve yourself of sexual tension, etc etc etc (i dont think i need to explain the high points of sex to anyone) to go against this is to go against the natural creation of mankind. now, someone asked me "if they come up with scientific evidene saying homosexuality is genetic, will you change your viewpoint" and the answer is NO, and ill tell you why: 1. i dont think its genetic. if a man or woman is gay, they are obviously not having heterosexual sex. biology has established for us that heterosexual sex is necessary for reproduction. if you didnt understand that, let me put it this way. 2 guys giving it to each other doesnt get a woman pregnant, because there is no woman involved. how then does the gene get passed down? i still think its a psychological thing. your only argument is, "why would anyone choose to be gay" well, maybe they LIKE it? i dont know? ill leave that to a gay person to answer. 2. and this is the 'trump card' if you will. EVEN IF it isnt genetic, i still contend it is wrong. all it establishes is that man is born with a tendency to sin and do evil. BIG SURPRISE THERE! i was born with a tendency to steal, to go after every hot chick i see, to cheat in school, to lie, to just go beat the crap out of someone if they pissed me off, but i DONT, because it is WRONG. homosexuality is the same. ------------------ http://members.fortunecity.com/omar369
Juan, Now you misunderstand my point (am I being an illiterate idiot today?). My rent is two fold: 1. To contradict the choice argument. While I agree that animals do make choices - they make choices all the time - I was saying that they are obviously not making the choice just to be "different" or to be "sinful" or whatever as anti-homosexual people often suggest. 2. My saying it occurs in nature was not to say that it is natural or right. It obviously is an aberration,as I said before. The fact that it occurs in non-human animals was just to illustrate that homosexuality was not just made up by deviant humans. Just because I feel that homosexuality is an aberration from nature does not mean that I think it is horrible. Things like this occur all of the time. It is not a choice. It simply is. You cannot say that, "nature determines a male and female for procreation" because that exists in all species and then discount an aspect of life that occurs in many different species and takes many different forms. Is that at all clearer (I say this not to belittle, but because of my inability to express my original point). ------------------ Big A, little a bouncing B, The System might have got you, but it won't get me.
One thing about life is that it ALWAYS finds a way to survive. Many species of animals reproduce asexually out of necessity. They are stuck in a single-sex environment and they change (evolve if you like) or become extinct. I'm not saying humans are that way or ever will be. I'm just saying that the need of man to procreate is no longer a necessity for everyone. Our planet is HORRIBLY overpopulated. My wife and I do not count among our "goals" of marriage to have children. The world would be far better off if more people made the choice we have. I'm not saying we did it for those reasons. There are more personal reasons for us, but the truth is that the world needs more people like I need more posts on this BBS. I respect your moral and ethical stand and your beliefs. You are certainly entitled to your opinion even if we don't agree. ------------------ Me fail English? That's unpossible.
the difference between being gay and all those things you mentioned is no one else gets hurt. How exactly does my being gay affect your life neagatively or in any way at all? to muslims, eating pork is a sin. should we ban heypartner's barbecues? this is America not Iran. as long as I'm not doing anything to hurt anyone else then I should be able to do whatever I damn well please. ------------------
lots of homosexuals have kids. there's this thing nowadays called artificial insemination. And so what if I'm deemed "unfit" by natural selection? who cares? does that make me less of a person if I don't pass on my genes? human beings aren't on earth just for breeding. ------------------
it's not possible for a man and a woman to procreate engaging in oral and anal sex either. but people still do it. what about condoms and birth control? i'd say intentional procreation as a reason for people having sex is a very small percentage. how do you equate what i said to wanting to kill people? I simply believe that this country is overpopulated and I feel no sense of duty to add to it. if you want to have 20 kids that's fine by me but don't tell me that I have to do the same thing or else I'm not as valuable a member of society as you are. [This message has been edited by outlaw (edited February 15, 2001).]
You know, the last person I used that three-way line on just stood there with their mouth open for a few seconds, huffed and walked off. I love that line. Seriously though - I believe there is no such thing as unnatural love, I've no problem with homosexual marriage. I do have a problem with some of the people who oppose homosexual marriage though. I believe that some people who call themselves "Christian" would be suprised by some of the stuff found in the Bible. ------------------ The Rockets will be the NBA champions. Believe.
There really is no solution to this discussion. Jamma feels that homosexuality is a sin and evil, etc. This cuts to the very core of his religious beliefs. outlaw is homosexual, thus, his stance on homosexuality cuts to the very core of his beliefs. And on and on.... outlaw, you seem to be getting a little worked up. My advice is, don't. You will not change Jamma's mind. It will only cause you personal grief. Discussion such as this is only good when both sides want to learn more. One who feels you are a sinner and evil, etc will not care about your justifications. Pick and choose where you put most of your energy. Of course, hearing your arguments has made me want to be gay. Where is the next meeting and do I sign up there? Can I get one of those nifty rainbow stickers? ------------------ Big A, little a bouncing B, The System might have got you, but it won't get me.
Oh yeah, outlaw, people always think I am gay, anyway...so I should not have too much trouble fitting in. ------------------ Big A, little a bouncing B, The System might have got you, but it won't get me.
yes, we are a lot like Amway. if you sign under me I get a bonus. and if you sign up only 10 more people under you... thanks for the friendly advice rimmy. you're right i was getting a little worked up. i've been having a little crisis of faith lately about my sexuality and i guess i've been hypersensitive. i'm not questioning my homosexuality, but feeling all this family pressure to get married combined with lack of success in the dating department has made me wonder if I should just surrender to society's norms and marry the next girl I meet. I'd be miserable for the rest of my life but at least I wouldn't have to keep fighting people like jamma. I'm just so tired of it all. [This message has been edited by outlaw (edited February 15, 2001).]
You do that and I'll personally come find you and kick your ass! Oh man, after sitting in front of a computer for 9 hours and 4 hours of rehearsal, I'm beat. I'll respond in the morning. ------------------ Everything you do, effects everything that is.
I know how difficult it is to rationalize controversial subjects with religious followers but I'll give it a try here. =) 1. According to my little encyclopedia, homosexuality was classified as a mental disorder until 1973, when the APA (American Psychiatric Association) acknowledged that many gay and lesbian people showed no signs of dysfunction and were satisfied with their sexual orientation. Apparently according to the medial profession, homosexuality is not a mental disorder or deviant behavior. 2. As I mentioned about homosexuality being a gene issue. I found this article published in the New York Times in 1993. Here is an excerpt of the article. Report Suggests Homosexuality is Linked to Genes by Natalie Angier Ushering the politically explosive study of the origins of sexual orientation into a new and perhaps more scientifically rigorous phase, researchers report that they have linked male homosexuality to a small region of one human chromosome. The results have yet to be confirmed by other laboratories, and the chromosomal region implicated, if it holds up under further scrutiny, is almost surely just a single chapter in the intricate story of sexual orientation and behavior. Nevertheless, scientists said the work suggests that one or several genes located on the bottom half of the sausage-shaped X chromosome may play a role in predisposing some men toward homosexuality. (The researchers have begun a similar study looking at the chromosomes of lesbians.) The findings, which appear today in the journal Science, indicate that sexual orientation often is at least partly inborn, rather than being solely a matter of choice. But researchers warn against overinterpreting the work, or in taking it to mean anything as simplistic as that the "gay gene" has been found. The researchers emphasized that they do not yet have a gene isolated, but merely know the rough location of where the gene or genes may sit amid the vast welter of human DNA, Until they have the gene proper, scientists said they had no way of knowing how it contributes to sexual orientation, how many people carry it, or how often carriers are likely to become gay as a result of bearing the gene. And even when they do have this gene on the X chromosome pinpointed, scientists said they will continue to search for other genes on other chromosomes that may be involved in sexual orientation. "Sexual orientation is too complex to be determined by a single gene," said Dr. Dean H. Hamer of the National Cancer Institute in Bethesda, Md., the lead author of the new report. "The main value of this work is that it opens a window into understanding how genes, the brain and the environment interact to mold human behavior." In the new work, the scientists studied the genetic material from 40 pairs of gay brothers and found that in 33 of the pairs, the brothers had identical pieces of the end tip of the X chromosome. Under ordinary circumstances ruled by chance alone, only half of the pairs should have shared that chromosomal neighborhood in common, a region designated Xq28. The odds of Dr. Hamer's results turning up randomly are less than half a percent, indicating that the chromosomal tip likely harbors a genetic sequence linked to the onset of the brothers' homosexuality. ------------------ "Relax... kids swallow quarters all the time. If she craps out two dimes and a nickel then start worrying!" -Grumpier Old Men
I definitely agree with you there. They have every right to do what they feel is necessary. We don't have to like it, but they are free to express themselves any way they see fit. I think the concern for some is that, despite the support for anti-gay discrimination and gay marriages (several recent polls show Americans in favor of anti-discrimination measure in particular and about even in the gay marriage issue) on the whole, some interest groups have more power over what essentially amounts to freedom of choice. Gays and lesbians do lobby but they don't have the power the right wing Christian conservatives do. But they are free to do what they feel is necessary. We all can. ------------------ Me fail English? That's unpossible.
mrpaige: You are really reflecting the attitudes of many Republicans. I've read several interviews and stories recently about Republican congressmen/women and senators who are pro choice, pro environmental protection, etc. but who are fiscally conservative. I have to believe that if the moderates from both parties were to combine, they would stomp the crap out of both of the other parties. ------------------ Me fail English? That's unpossible.
so, just to stir up trouble, why did you say vagina and not *****??? furthermore, if I remember from one of my early anthropology classes, there are animals that not only reproduce asexually and even some animals that have complete sex changes in the event that one sex drastically outnumbers the other sex. This is completely natural too. Just something to think about. Ali p.s. in the whole world, don't women outnumber men by a lot??? should i be worried?? ------------------ Be nice to the newbie!
Jeff, why are you so sarcastic? Of course gay's recruit. And they're proud of it! Look at this source I found on the internet. After all, if it's on the internet, it must be true. http://www.theonion.com/onion3326/homosexualrecruit.html dylan ps The biggest reason I'm a Libertarian instead of a Republican is the whole gay thing. I could just never vote for someone who had, as part of their platform, the notion that gay people were inferior and should be denied marriage. ------------------
i think they are trying to prevent Vermont-style civil unions. Personally I'm not too concerned about gay marriage (since it feels like I'm gonna be single forever ). I'm much more concerned with hate crime laws and protection from employment/housing discrimination. ------------------
