DD....not sure what you are disagreeing with exactly. Isn't Von starting getting a chance to play and shine? I think Barry is the weak link of this group and will be gone if Tmac is back. If we don't trade Tmac, sign Artest and work out a deal for Von, Barry will be the odd man out and White will be the new and upcoming project probably. Having two players deep at each position is ideal for any team ( the 2 Von/Tmac the 3 Artest/Battier) and a third end of bench player like White is worth holding on two if they can play both positions comfortably. So to me, five isn't too many wing players on a team. Usually you will only play two point guards unless of injury, no matter what the matchups, so that leaves you one additional player on the 12 man squad that is usually a 4/5 bench warmer. Yao/Deke Scola/Landry Artest/Battier Von/Tmac AB/Lowery Your last two spots, White and Hayes on the active Roster. If Deke is gone, then bringing in another legit backup center is primary first, although I think the 99 year old Deke can even go another year because he hasn't been used this year. We don't need another pg unless they are on the inactive roster or we trade for a proven legit starter. Dorsey is fading and I don't know about his future with this team at this point. And again, Barry would be the odd man out. His skills are diminishing and the roster spot needs to go to younger and up and coming talent.
I do value potential, and I think Von has off the chart potential...and is already performing at a very high level. And his D has been getting a lot better.....his improvement has been amazing.....I think it will continue...don't you? Who could you replace him with? He has a unique skill set in his quickness and finishing ability, who else in the league possesses this other than elite players like Wade etc? Battier - no....Artest - no...Tmac - not anymore....who, who can you replace him with to get this type of efficient scoring? Who can you get? I think the team desperatly needs this.......I would consider starting Von, next year and moving Battier to the bench. Artest is NOT a go-to guy, but he thinks he is....and his speed and D has declined significantly to where he is reaching a lot on D as his man blows by him. He has a toughness for sure, but he is on decline, I would not give him a big contract, I would rather give it to a player that will get better over one that is getting worse. DD
If/when Von becomes a starter and his minutes increase his efficiency is going to take a serious hit. Also, his poor decision making will be exposed as well as his sub-par defense. You can't just run full speed at the defenses while playing starters minutes against other starters unless your name is D-Wade. And Von isn't even in that category remotely. However he can do that against 2nd teams with success as we have seen. Von doesn't have to be a "star" to be a productive and valuable piece. He is what he is now, a high energy and athletic bench player with potential. But potential doesn't = star... Sorry
We will definitely keep Ron. Just look at the market...which contender is going to risk it by signing an timebomb who never established any chemistry or familiarity with the coach or the team??? JR Smith is still a much better player than Von, and his 3's are 10x better than Von...scoring wise JR is better and a more well rounded player only thing I think Von has over JR is heart and determination... JR was in Byron Scott's doghouse...much like Brandon Bass etc...What does this tell us? Byron Scott has a problem...
Of course anyone will like to keep him. But for what limit? His a 23 yr old kid who is finally getting some consistent minutes. He began to show how comfortable he is with scoring the ball in multiple ways. But his defense is atrocious. Some one with his athletically ability does not let a player blow by him so easily. His ability to score is top notch, but his defense is just bad. This is not a matter of experience its more of a willingness to play defense. If he did not show it now, I really doubt he can or will improve on this part of his game. DD, All-star talent/potential? He is no where near the current all stars, as well as the next group of players, players like Kevin Martin, Rudy Gay, Kevin Durant.
DD, You passion about Von is off the chart, we all can see it. And you have good reasons. I too am very excited by Von's play. He has helped to win a lot of games,for some of which he was the reason of the victory. But you are overhyped when you ranked him over Battier, Artest, even JR. Yes. Von has an incredible set of skills, he has range, he can dunk and he is like a flash when attacking the rim. But isn't he always like that? How come was he cut by teams, multi-times? Remember the same scouts, GMs who overlooked or cut off Von are going to talk about a contract with him. Von really had not done anything in college or NBA before playing for the rockets. Would a single seasons' mostly off-the-bench performance be enough to change the initial impression of Von on the decision-makers? Would it be enough to make Von more valuable than past defensive-player-of-the-year in Artest, NCAA MVP and one of the best defensive players in Shane, and continuously and solidly improving JR (he scored 23 points in the fourth quarter and 11 3-pointers for a Nuggets record in the last game)? Von simply does not have a solid base to backup his brilliant season. Von may land a MLE in some teams, but hardly in a winning team, not to say contenders. I do not see teams like Lakers, Nuggets, San Antonio, Portland, Dallas, New Orleans, Cleveland, Boston, Magic paying MLE and provide a starting role for Von. If they don't, neither does rockets. Imho, the elite teams are always slow in recognizing talents and when they do, they pay less than the market value. Lotto teams is, ironically, to the opposite. I wish rockets would not offer MLE to keep Von.
Ok DD, I am putting Von on your tab, Along with Vspan and Dan Langhi. Von does not rebound well enough, play defense well enough, or create for others well enough, to be an effective starter on a playoff team, in this league. He is as 1-dimensional as they come... To change this, he will have to expand his game drastically. I would rather have Buike....
I would like to see him remain with the Rockets. He has been a nice scoring punch off the bench. But, I would like to see how he performs during the playoffs before we start talking about contracts.
This is just not true, he was already a starter for a brief time and his efficiency went up. Some of you are only looking at what he is doing now, and not extrapolating out for the next 4+ years which you have to do when considering a contract etc. I think he will continue to improve....it bugs the crap out of me that people only look at the now, and seemingly have no ability to look down the road to acesss a player. Let me ask you guys an honest question, do you think Von or Ron will be better in 4 years? That is what it boils down to.... DD
Yeah, always look back at a guys rookie year to extrapolate out how he will be in his next contract...right? Come on, the guy was like 20 years old..... I guess we shall wait and see......I was wrong about Langhi....for sure...but never felt as strongly about him as I do about Von...... I think Von is going to be a special player in the league....borderline all star......if not better. Von will be better than them by a long shot....but VSpan could still play too...he has game. DD
Maybe. As I said, there's nothing wrong with liking the guy, and we need guys like him on the team -- depth is what put this team in position to win a division title going into game #82. There have been guys like him before who can put up points and not much else and then fall off. Ron Mercer and Earl Boykins come to mind. More hyperbole? I don't think you can easily replace him with NBDL free agents, but guys like leebigez favorites Kelenna Azuibuke and Matt Barnes, or guys like Mo Evans or Rasual Butler could come in and give you similar production. 4 years? Seriously? 4 years ago, TMac was defending his 2nd scoring title. 4 years from now, Yao Ming may not be a Rocket or even playing. I'm not offering Ron a 4 year contract, but that has little to do with how well I think he'll be playing in 4 years. With the way his body deteriorates, I'd probably rather have Steve Novak than McGrady 4 years from now. Besides, if Von believes he is as good as you think he is, he wouldn't take a 4 year deal from us. With this team, I care about who can take us where in the 1-2 year window.
You know that is a fair point, I always look at that, plus the future. And that is what you should look at when talking future contract, right? The way I look at Von...versus Ron in particular is in efficiency. Von plays within the offense a lot more and works very well with Yao Ming, whereas Ron does too, but about half the time Ron just goes off on the deep end and chunks up wild shots. I like Ron's toughness, but his efficiency is not all that great, and I think you have his defensive abilities covered already with Battier. I would like to see our SG be a more efficient scorer, and have either Artest or Battier at the SF spot. I thin Von is already operating at a starters level, and just needs more time on the court to improve even more. Now, of course it is too late this year, but to me, I would like to see him starting next year, and would move either Artest or Battier (Preferably Artest) to create some room for him. I think Von is capable of 20ppg in this offense and also capable of creating his own as well as shots for others, whereas the rest of our SG/SFs are not all that good at that.... To me, Von makes us a more versatile team....which is what I think we need to go really deep in the playoffs. You are right though, I doubt he stays....he will probably be offered more than Morey is willing to pay. And all those guys you mentioned are under contract and only Kelena is about as efficient, and he plays in a run and gun system.....so I am not sure how it translates into a Yao type of team. I would rather stick with a player I know works well..than take a chance on replacing him and HOPING to get the same production. DD
Daryl Morey talks about Von today in his podcast about 2/3rds into it Show hosts "Daryl when you signed Von is this what you expected to get?" Morey " Well I think you never....you know Von's done a lot of impressive things and you never know your gonna get this good. Ummmm, he's been better than we thought, obviously there is a very limited number of people who we give even a summer league tryout let alone a training camp tryout. Which, we only brought in 2 or 3 guys this year, it is a very limited set. We felt like Von had a good shot to make the team coming out of training camp, but, really it is a credit to Von, no one can anticipate you are going to do this well in your first major minutes in the NBA" Caller "Will we see more of Von late in games?" Morey " You know Von is one of our best ISO players on the offensive end, he is also one of our best bailout players, and if we get him in the right spots offensively he is one of our best offensive weapons. Defensively, often, especially late in the game, coach has some issues trusting that he is going to follow exactly what we need in terms of knowing the play the other team is going to run and making sure he is in the right spots. We feel confident he can do that, but coach is often going to go with what he knows he can count on for sure and just like every player, each one presents advantages and sometimes disadvantages in the matchup and coach has done a great job managing that throughout the season." Host "Defense is about desire" Morey "Shane is the best in the league or one of the best at understanding what players are going to do, Von has the desire to get there, but not the experience yet. But Athletically, Von is maybe the best player on the team. So, he can cover up his inexperience with athleticism sometimes. But step one is you have to have that burning desire and Von has that, And right now we have all 15 guys coming to the arena saying we are going to shut this team down." ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sounds to me like Morey likes what he sees. DD
Von has a lot of room to improve(and the physical ability and desire to do it), I don't think Adelman has asked him to throw an entry pass to Yao all season, his next step offensively is getting involved on the strong side of the floor with Yao b/c we know he can blow by his man for easy layups and dunks if Yao is fronted. It takes alot of practice to become a solid post entry passer when working with Yao and if he works on it next preseason I don't see why he can't do it regularly. If the defender sags off him he can nail the 3, if the defender gets into his chest and the big man fronts Yao, wow, look out, he'll be going to the bucket all day long! Defensively he could turn into a strong 2 guard, his only issue right now is with experience and knowing when to defend with his feet and when to defend with his hops, he likes to jump to block shots when if he just stayed on the floor and defended with his body he would force the other teams player into tough shots.
IIRC Wafer's thrown a few entry passes to Yao, though usually not in pressure situations. He seemed fairly adequate at it. Defensively, I'm not expecting sudden, dramatic improvements during the playoffs. If he can just consistently box out his guy, not get lost in the rotations and bring defensive intensity, I'd be happy.
