Wish you did not make up your mind so fast. Obama has got several chances to go negative but chose not to. I wish he would not even now, but I am not sure about the chances Campaign will leave his team. I was suprised when he did not go for an allout attack on Clinton in the California debate(Iraq war issue) where she looked cornered on the issue. I thought it showed up little bit as weakness. But now I think he was trying to keep it civil and make his point. I appreciate him for that I still don't completely understand reason for the amount of hatred people have for Clinton, but they probably have a point. I don't think there is a lot of negativity in the campaign thus far, but I believe She is close to crossing line when she starts talking words that imply rival team member to be better than same team member. It may win few votes now but will cause long term damage. I wish she removes this line from her future talks (or) She will get a visit from the GodFather of the party (in AlPacino voice) "Hillary, you're (like)my older Sister, and I love you. But don't ever take sides with anyone against the Family again. EVER."
I typically like to read and not post in the D&D, but Rich, weren't you just asking for a honest comparison between the two candidates, or a honest view on Obama, or something like that last week? I can't begin to fathom how your brain is working???
I actually didn't make up my mind fast. I was actually supporting Obama right after he won the Iowa Caucus. Everybody loves an underdog. Also, many Independents like me wanted to stick it to the Clintons. I just got tired of hearing people say he's for change and for hope. I got tired by many of my music industry colleagues to go with the Obama bandwagon and not tell me why I should. So I had to make up my own mind. I also had to listen to my wife argue her points on voting for Hillary. Try telling a passionate Latina otherwise and you will be sleeping on the couch for a while. However, while all my friends were telling me to vote Obama nobody was telling me what he stood for. When Obama came to Houston, I listened to his entire speech on TV. That 45 minute sermon was when I REALLY started to change. I then started to probe and ask more questions. Then I posted on this board and asked the Obama people in here to tell me what his good judgments were. What qualifies him to be the Commander in Chief and hold the highest office in the land? Once I started asking the questions is when you all started attacking me. So once the attacks came, I started to dig even more and learned a whole lot about Obama in the past week. I also started to argue more with my wife - I slept on the couch last night. lol. All I know is that I'm going to fall into that tax bracket where I'm gonna end up paying $2K more in taxes under Obama's and Clintons plan. All I know is that I'm already paying WAY too much for baby formula at nearly $7 a can. Do I care about the war on terror - yes. I had friends and distant family die 9/11. Is it my main concern - NO. I'm concerned about my mortgage payments, my taxes, btw...What the hell are these M.U.D taxes for in Harris county? I feel like I'm being taxed twice! I pay property tax and MUD tax? WTF? So now that I'm questioning a guy that everyone loves...I'm the gullible, crazy, Clinton lover? I didn't even want to consider McCain for president because we already went there with George Bush. However, I may have to re-look at him too because I don't think EITHER Candidate - Obama or Clinton is going to benefit my family.
^^^ Everything you said above makes sense. But why did you start this thread, especially in the way you started it? It's reactionary and adds little intelligent discourse to the situation at hand. If you don't like Obama for the reasons stated, that's fine. There's enough poo-slinging on Fox, CNN, MSNBC, the web to go around...no need to start another multi-page thread that has little to offer...
Rocket Rich- Why are you pretending to be open minded about all of this? Your language is hateful and short minded. You obviously have a massive bias and it is very, very difficult to believe you've developed that bias in one week.
Did I say it was one week? No. My views on Obama changed after his Houston speech. I was actually looking at supporting him after the Iowa Caucus. But the more questions I asked, the more I stated to get attacked. The more I got attacked, the more I started to dig. Attending the Caucus this past Tuesday put a real bad taste in my mouth. It made me mad actually that I was witnessing all of this. It made me probe even more. So yea, a lot can happen in a week. Just like the polls having Obama winning Texas in double digits 2 weeks ago to losing this past tuesday. All it takes is a little searching and being OPEN to ALL arguments both GOOD and BAD to change people's minds. Who knows, maybe Obama can change my mind again from now til Novemeber. We shall see. I'm tired of his same speeches. I want to SEE him DO things. If he's about change, he's a US Senator right? Then why not do his job when they come back from vacation and DO something. Enter some legislation, hold a commitee meeting, do SOMETHING.
Do you hold Clinton and McCain to this same standard? Or this simply an Obama problem? During the time they weren't campaigning, Obama did more in the Senate than either of the other two (the 2005-2006 session).
I hold it to BOTH Clinton and McCain as well. I should look at both Clinton and McCain their first 2 years of being Senator and compare their records to Obama. I'll be RIGHT BACK! At the same time, McCain and Clinton isn't basing the theme of their campaign on HOPE and CHANGE. So if you are gonna talk the talk - walk the walk.
I'm curious if it was one issue that set Rich off. We know with wnes it was that Obama wouldn't blindly sign off on .080-20's demands that he appoint only asian judges until their racial quota was met for US judgeships. For MR. MEOWGI, he blew a circuit when Obama said he'd want to curb spending at NASA. For these guys, one issue makes them want to sling any piece of mud, accurate or not, make ridiculous assertions (they live in an expensive house, how dare they care for the poor, etc), and say obama supporters are fanatical kool-aid drinkers even though their whole beef stems from them drinking somebody else's kook-aid (.00000000080-20 and NASA). So, complete the trifecta Rich, what was the one thing that originally made you hate Obama so much that now you feel the need to bash him.
To be honest, I told my wife on tuesday morning - I'm still confused on who to vote for. As I walked to the booth, I just said I'm going to listen to my heart on who to vote for. As I was waiting and waiting on who to vote, I made the decision to vote for Hillary. Granted I did have a slight Bias against Obama with the initial research I did on him. When I returned later that night for the Caucus, what I witnessed is what SET ME OFF. Then once I reported to you all my experience, I was ATTACKED. So I kept doing more research about this man trying to find more about him. The more I found, the more I just didn't like. So if I had to pinpoint it, it was the Caucus and the way his supporters acted that made me mad. I wish I lived in an expensive house but I do not. I had to move from NY back to Texas because I couldn't afford to live there anymore. It's not easy being in the music industry. I've seen many of my peers lose jobs over the last 10 years. I've also seen the industry change as well. I'm not going to blame our economy for that because the Music industry destroyed themselves. However, now that I am a family man with a child, I DO worry about my mortgage payments, my health insurance, my taxes MORE than I do about the war in Iraq. I'm tired of hearing about Iraq - what's done is done. So Obama can argue all he wants about how he VOTED AGAINST IRAQ - when he wasn't even in congress yet. I want to know what he's going to do about MY families issues. Up until this point, I was not hearing what I want to hear. Also, I was tired of hearing people tell me "He's the next JFK!" He's going to bring honor and respect back to the Whitehouse. He's going to make us Proud to be Americans again! You know what? I'd rather know that I'll be able to pay my bills, keep my family safe, be able to take care of their well-being, be sure I have a job next year, than worry about a WAR in IRAQ. I'd rather worry about THOSE things before hearing ANY MORE about HOPE AND CHANGE!
This statement is a joke, coming from you. Look at your thread title. Go re-read the posts you've made in this thread. You aren't "open" to the idea of Barack for president one iota, regardless of the arguments presented to you. I'm sick of hearing you talk about how open you are. Drop the charade. You're angry at his supporters? Then fight with them all day long. That's certainly what you're doing here. But drop your silly, fake, self-proclaimed openness. At least with TJ and Texx we know who we're dealing with.
Now I'm really confused. Given the GOP record of the last 7+ years, I can't believe someone in you situation would seriously believe things would be better with yet another Republican in the White House. I can understand you not liking Clinton. A lot of people don't. I can understand you being pissed off about the caucus situation. I'm not saying it was Obama's fault (people work for the candidate in the state and organize for these things. The candidate often has only the most general idea as to what exactly goes on. Not everyone was/is as anal retentive about knowing every bit of information as LBJ or Bill Clinton), but since this all came up, I've talked to a couple of friends in Austin who experienced being "overwhelmed" by the Obama folks and the poor preparation by whoever is responsible for the caucus. One friend, in particular, is an even more ardent Democrat than I am (imagine!), and she left the caucus, still in line around 9:30pm, along with her husband. They had been there for hours, hadn't had anything to eat (the Obama folks had people with munchies, etc., believe it or not), and were getting very, very cold after it became dark. They weren't dressed for it, thinking it wouldn't take so long. They said a lot of people left. Older people, people with kids, people like them. I think the party should be ashamed. That shouldn't happen. Impeach Bush.
I never said things would be better if I voted for McCain. Voting for him isn't what I want to do either. I just was disenfranchised by my caucus experience and how the Obama supporters acted in my district. As I said in my other thread, a lot of Hillary supporters left, families with kids, older people, like your friends did. And as you said, that shouldn't have happened along with the other stuff that did happen. It is what it is. However, this whole experience didn't just put bad tastes in my mouth but I'm sure the many Independents that came to the Democratic party for the first time as well. This is how you democrats embrace us? By ridiculing us when we question your candidates, your supporters, and your party?
