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Will Lin or Bev FINISH games?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by garfangle, Oct 26, 2013.

  1. TheBornLoser

    TheBornLoser Contributing Member

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    Your opinion, not mine.

    Your opinion, not mine.


    Your opinion, not mine.


    Maybe, maybe not. Not my place to speculate.

    Oh, he will definitely grow into a better player anyway. As I said, he has his head screwed on right. And he is no Royce White.

    But after his contract is up... who knows.... *shrug*
     
  2. Yao4REAL

    Yao4REAL Member

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    As a LOF, I am more comfortable when Beverly is guarding the other great PGs. Imagine going against Deron Williams, Chris Paul or Westbrook in crucial time (i am talking about every possession count as clock winding down), i don't think McHale is going to let Lin guard those dudes. Not only Beverly can guard, he does the little thing that help team win too...such as offensive & defensive rebound, stealing, stripping ball. Not that Lin doesn't do those things, but Beverly is more tenacious. If you see the last two pre-season games, you know what i am talking about...Parker and Conley couldn't do much against Beverly. That's why McHale like to have Lin play along w/ Beverly. He wants Beverly to defense and Lin as the offense. But defense is the key to winning gamest and that's why Beverly is starting. If Beverly play avg defense, do you think McHale will start him despite shooting well? Hell no. Beverly is an exceptional defender.
     
  3. TheBornLoser

    TheBornLoser Contributing Member

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    If Morey was willing to pay Lin 25 million over 3 years, then Morey was willing to pay Lin 25 million over 3 years.

    All the speculation and conjecture that goes into "Lin's actual value / market price" and whether Morey strictly believed Lin is worth less than 25 million over 3 years is just that - speculation and conjecture.

    If I pay 100K for a house, but I believe that its actual value is only 80K, then why the hell pay 100K for it in the first place? Either I'm really stupid or its value is really 100K. And Morey is the absolute last person I would call a dumb dumb.
     
  4. redearth

    redearth Contributing Member

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    Regardless of who starts or finishes, I think it's awesome that Beverley has continued his improvement to the point where we now have 2 PGs, either of whom could legitimately start and/or finish.

    I trust coach McHale to make the best choice to complement the team leaders, Harden and Howard. Can't wait for the season opener, go Rockets!
     
  5. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

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    Your house example is far far far from the same thing. You could buy always buy a different house. We're talking about PGs with talent in the NBA. After Lin I think the next best option was Ray freaking Felton. So in your example we overpay for a nice place with potential or we pay bottom dollar for a shanty.

    There were absolutely reasons other than skill that went into lins contract offer, ignoring them is just silly.
     
  6. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Bev is great, possibly one of the best, at pressure defense and forcing turnovers. However he is rather pedestrian when it comes to keeping elite guards in front of him.
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. treeman

    treeman Member

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    Considering who else is likely on court at the end of a game, it's a no-brainer. Bev finishes.
     
  8. Fighton

    Fighton Member

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    according to reports, it was les that wanted morey to bump up the offer. the original offer was still pretty high, but not this high. the big difference between the 1st offer and 2nd offer was the amount in the last year of the contract.

    anyway, i do agree though, that morey probably thought he was worth 25 over 3 yrs. that was dragic money, and morey was right - they ended up the year with pretty similar stats even though dragic had a higher usage rate. that's why there were reports that the front office was disappointed in lin earlier in the season last year even though they publicly tried to take pressure off of him with the whole not-expecting-linsanity thing. but based on his performance later on in the season after full recovery from surgery, i would assume that their expectations were met. i mean, he did contribute 3rd highest number of wins on the team after harden and asik.

    i think the front office still believes him to be a 25mil player (i don't thinkthe coaches do, though). they only entertained trade talks for lin when they got wind that chris paul might be interested. chris freakin' paul. if morey really wanted to trade him because of his contract this off season, i'm sure he could've. there were much, much worse contracts that were moved in the past, and lin's isn't that bad.
     
  9. steady

    steady Member

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    It is looking like if Bev starts, Bev will certainly close. For those who don't expect Lin to be in demand when his contract is up (or before), what Celtics' legend Bob Cousy said about Lin-- yes, this was during Linsanity, but you would expect that Cousey would know as well as anyone how to assess Linsanity (i.e., that it could not be sustained at that level).

    "Lin sees the floor extremely well and has good size for a point guard. He seems smart, not just because he went to Harvard, but in the way he plays. Just based on what I saw against Dallas, it's hard for me to believe [Golden State and Houston] cut him. It's hard to criticize without being there, but point guards who can run the show in the NBA are in such demand."

    "Lin's meltdown in Miami didn't concern Cousy; he figured the kid was due for a lousy game, and he knew the Heat had the talent and motivation to shut him down. "They'd heard about Lin for a while," Cousy said, "and LeBron James and Dwyane Wade don't want to read about people other than themselves.""
     
  10. Rox23

    Rox23 Member

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    Reading these kind of threads is strange, and revealing. First, people wanted Lin out of the starting lineup; now it looks like they want him off the team (i.e. traded). Why don't we all just enjoy the very special season that's in front of us instead of bickering about what happens three seasons from now when contracts expire. Right now we've got a great point guard in Beverley starting, and, probably the best backup point guard in the league (a 6th man candidate) in Jeremy Lin who can playmake and be himself inside his Linsanity-style offense with the second unit. It's a win win. With Asik and Lin we have one of the best benches in the league. Who cares who finishes games: why should that matter to anyone unless their fantasy is to get rid of either Bev or Lin? Stop pitting Lin and Beverly against each other. Grow up, y'all; and support our guys!
     
  11. TheBornLoser

    TheBornLoser Contributing Member

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    Er, look dude, I am one of the last persons that you should be lecturing about "valuation". I may not specialize in or even be intimately familiar with basketball player valuations, but I've studied valuation in general, have it as a primary plank of my working life, have succeeded based on my correct valuations or a competitor's wrong / inferior valuation, and have also failed based on my wrong valuations or a competitor's better valuation. I know that "more reasons other than skill" could have been taken into account when Morey offered Lin the contract he did.

    But I am also aware that valuation, in general, is a very subjective decision-making process. What may qualify as your metrics and your KPIs for success or value may not have any weight or may be of lighter (or heavier) emphasis to others. It is very difficult to second guess another person's valuation unless he / she was totally transparent with you about his basis and standards (both long term and short term).

    That's why, to avoid being presumptuous and speculative as to what Morey's criterion was for awarding Lin that contract, I just go straight to the easiest barometer of Lin's value - what he finally obtained. His final contract value says everything there is to say about Lin's actual market value. Nothing more to argue here.

    Now, I am also very well aware of the differences between perceived value and actual value. I am also aware that value deteriorates or increases over time. I am also aware that what is fair value, a bargain or an over-inflation to you would be different to me.So if you want to make a case for whether Lin is performing up to value as a 8.3 million / annum basketball player, you can make it according to your own subjective metrics and I will make my own. However, if you want to argue that Morey did not value Lin at 25 million / 3 years for whatever reason, I am just going to have a laugh at you.

    That's it, I'm moving on.
     
  12. gnozahs

    gnozahs Member

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    Bev. As we've already seen last season.
     
  13. imarealballer

    imarealballer Member

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    Mchale has made it very clear from day one that the "pg" will play off the ball, take a few 3's, but otherwise remain uninvolved in the offense and out of harden's way.

    Obviously, he feels that beverley fits that role better than lin, which he does.

    Unfortunately for mchale and the rockets, beverley's defensive intensity and all out style is predicated on playing limited minutes, in short bursts, at maximum intensity. Beverley cannot keep playing with this level of intensity with starter's minutes over the long haul. It's just physically impossible.

    Also, even with lin more involved in the offense than beverley will be as the starter, harden wore down very badly in the last third of the season.

    Theoretically, the harden/beverley tandem makes sense. But over the course of a full season, it doesn't. Both will wear down and become significantly less effective.

    Not only that, but beverley is now persona non grata, and has become a target for the rest of the league. We've seen this already with jameer nelson and marc gasol taking cracks at him. This is going to be an ongoing issue, indefinitely.

    If Howard wants to stick up for beverley, howard will be in a lot of fights this season.


     
  14. Rox23

    Rox23 Member

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    /\ THIS.

    I like Bev starting and Lin coming off the bench. Bev can do the dirty work of guarding Chris Paul and Westbrook and all the great starting point guards in the league, and hit threes; meanwhile Lin can focus on playmaking and offense in the second unit. The one big question though is the wear and tear on Harden over the long term. With Bev starting, Harden has to have his fingerprints on pretty much every single play. Also, that mention about "persona non grata" was interesting as well...you forgot to mention however the smack that that Davis guy (same guy who whacked DMo in the face) gave to Bev early on in the game. Luckily the Rox have Howard to have Bev's back!
     
  15. imarealballer

    imarealballer Member

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    Beverley's going to be taking some nasty hits this season. Expect some of this to spill over to the rest of the team as well, but Beverley will be the primary target. It will be interesting to see how Beverley reacts, not only to being targeted, but how he holds up running cheetah sprints in a marathon.
     
  16. Phillycheese

    Phillycheese Member

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    I,ll come right out and say it, Houston will not win a championship with Bev playing starter PG minutes. With only one starter able to create his own shots, it'll be easy for other teams to shut Harden down. Howard also has to either make his move in the post quicker or play with more motion (ie pnr). In the preseason he had a lot of hands on the ball when he spun to make his move because he was too slow and the defense collapsed very quickly. Even if Bev starts, I still see Lin getting more minutes.
     
  17. Kiddsir

    Kiddsir Member

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    Not sure Bev can defend CP3 or westbrook in crucial time. Last year he let Reggie Jackson score 17.4 at first round playoff. We'll see Bev's real defense ability when facing starters.
     
  18. gene18

    gene18 Rookie

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    This is true.
     
  19. Rox23

    Rox23 Member

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    You know why Reggie Jackson scored 20+ points on Bev two games in a row? Bev is a great one-on-one defender but hasn't learned all the subtleties yet of how to double team effectively. When you double team you can't overcommit; what you do is stay midway between your man and the other man. Bev overcommitted on Durant double teams, leaving Jackson wide open.
     
  20. gene18

    gene18 Rookie

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    Beverley was involved in a lot of physical and verbal conflicts when he was in the Euroleague. One is posted on youtube. We will see what happens.
     

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