Will Harden break the record for turnovers? [2016-2017]

THIS

 

Just one more time

Rocket River

 

Averaging 6.46 turnovers in January

 

Harden could literally average 10 a game, and some people here will still try to defend that. Honestly, I was surprised to find that people like you and others who were somewhat harsh on Harden last season became so homerish about him this time around, just because our team record. It's pretty obvious to me that Harden's turnovers and defense is not any better than last year, and is going to catch up to us in big games during the playoffs if not addressed properly.

 

Chill out _holic. If Harden only averaged 5 and the team had the fewest turnovers in the league you would still gripe about his 5. You like to biitch and complain.

Most intelligent posters realize it's his most needed area of improvement but also recognize the context of this system and his responsibility that creates such a high number.

 

Answer the question. If Harden averages 10 turnovers a game, would that still be OK?

 

this will be a stain on his resume when he hangs it up, he will never be able to place himself alongside Stockton and Nash, because he is too turnover prone, i have never seen a player with such high basketball IQ, making so many dumb decisions on passes again and again and again, those full court pass needs to stop, every time harden throws it, it's a turnover, anybody else throws, it's 2 points

 

If he were to average 10 tovs and we won 65 games so be it. I would like for him to improve in that area but I wouldn't slander him because he won us 65 games.

If he were to average 10 tovs and we won 40 games I would want to take the ball out of his hands and move him off the ball.

But reality in he only averages 5+ and is leading us to around 65 wins because of his creativity and "risk taking" albeit he takes too many risks.

None the less your gonna ignore the logic I typed and instead say "see I told you they would defend him no matter what".

 

Harden can average 10 turnovers a game and we could still win 65 games IF other guys on this team collectively step up and play above their pay grade like they did early in the season. Doesn't mean that it's in anyway tolerable for any player to average double digits in turnovers just because there are other offsetting factors that temporarily mask the issue. Harden especially should be careful about turning it over, because he already has a major weakness in his game called defense. He can't afford another one.

 

Well the point is to win right?

It's one thing to criticize a guy when losing, another when winning. If we can win despite his flaws, then what is the big deal anyway?

 

Are you sure we are, or were, winning due to Harden? His RPM and on/off net rating suggest otherwise.

 

Easiest question of all time. Do you not watch when he is off the court? 14-0 run by the Bucks to start the second qtr yesterday is just the latest example.

 

Because one game defines the whole season? Have you been tracking Harden's +/- numbers, because I have and it's not pretty.

 

joomba alert

 

Well his RPM is still the highest on the team and just behind Durant and Curry. Is he as good as he was in 2014-15 when he was #3 in RPM? I don't think so. But we're still winning. We can complain more if we keep losing.

 

Show your stats. His real +/- is very good. His efficiency is elite.

 

The numbers actually suggest that we were winning at a blistering pace early in the season mainly due to our bench and role players playing above their pay grade, and that actually fits what I see on live games too. I don't see us playing significantly worse when Harden goes out, or a lot better when Harden comes in for that matter, as reflected in Harden's measley +4.2 on/off net rating. I'm not saying Harden hasn't been individually great overall, because he has, but our team success so far is predicated on a lot of players stepping up their game independent of Harden's influence. For example, our shooters' field goal percentage doesn't dramatically increase when they are on the court with Harden, contrary to popular narrative.

 

Harden's RPM is 13th in the league. That's not a MVP number.

Harden's on/off net rating is only +4.2. Again, that is far from MVP impact, and this team's overall level of play doesn't seem to depend on whether Harden is on the court or not. Curry had way more talent on his team during his back to back MVP years, and yet managed to post far higher on/off net rating than that.