1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Will Bush abolish Abortion?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by moestavern19, Jan 23, 2001.

  1. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 1999
    Messages:
    48,946
    Likes Received:
    1,365
    Can someone explain to me the terrible things that abortion has done to our society?
     
  2. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 1999
    Messages:
    36,288
    Likes Received:
    26,638
    Timing - I am assuming that you are not attributing the "overpopulation" quote to me. As I stated, it is a very sad thing when folks such as ZRB write statements like that.

    This thread reminds me of an editorial cartoon I saw. A man is looking up towards heaven and says, "God, we have all these diseases, AIDS, cancer and others. Why haven't you sent help?" God replies, "I did send help, you aborted them".

    ------------------
     
  3. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 1999
    Messages:
    48,946
    Likes Received:
    1,365
    That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. What a loving God that person worships. What the f*ck ever.



    ------------------
    "He was under more balls than a midget hooker."-Bobby Hill

    visit www.swirve.com, coming January 20th, the top 10 films of 2000!

    and, http://www.geocities.com/clutch34_2000 for great Rocket insight by some of your fellow BBS posters!
     
  4. rimbaud

    rimbaud Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 1999
    Messages:
    8,169
    Likes Received:
    676
    Actually, i thought is was very funny!

    ------------------
    Big A, little a bouncing B,
    The System might have got you, but it won't get me.
     
  5. 4chuckie

    4chuckie Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 1999
    Messages:
    3,300
    Likes Received:
    2
    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Originally posted by 4chuckie:
    "A woman has the natural right to choose what happens to their bodies."
    I agree with this statement right up until the point that a woman willingly spreads her legs for unprotected sex. Yeah I know condoms or the pill or opther alternatives are not 100% safe, but that is not my point.
    My point is the woman did have a choice and she took the chance of an unplanned pregnacy. After that if she chooses an abortion she is taking a life.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Jeff- I said "willingly", I would not use rape and willingly in the same circumstance.

    And yeah the fathers does have rights and obligations too. Such as to support any child he fathers.

    ------------------
     
  6. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 1999
    Messages:
    36,288
    Likes Received:
    26,638
    RM95

    I think that even most Pro-Choicers would agree that abortion is a terrible thing. Do you have to be told that killing millions of innocent children does terrible things to a society? That goes without saying. Those are millions of lives that did not reach their potential. They did not have the chance to touch our hearts and spirit, nor we theirs. They did not have the chance to become the next Einstein, Magellan or Jordan. There are millions of parents, grandparents, family members and friends who have to live with the possible grief and regret. Regardless of whther or not you agree with them or not, I am sure that for the vast majority of those that chose abortion, they made a long, thought out and hard decision. They have to live with that every day. It's got to affect them.
    .

    ------------------
     
  7. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 1999
    Messages:
    48,946
    Likes Received:
    1,365
    bobrek, no **** it affects them. But don't you think it affects the person that had the child, but couldn't afford to raise it properly? The only people I ever hear minimizing the effects of abortion are conservatives. A lot of pro-lifers I talk to act like people just use abortion as a means of birth control and the act doesn't affect them at all.

    And if you want to argue that it's a life that didn't realize its true potential, then I can just as easily argue that pulling out, or using a condom is the same thing. Anyway, I don't believe that something that can't live on its own is a life.

    Also, can someone please explain to me how someone can be pro-life, except in the cases of rape or incest. If it's murder, it's murder, is it not?

    I still find it interesting that conservatives care more for the unborn child than the child born into poverty.

    ------------------
    "He was under more balls than a midget hooker."-Bobby Hill

    visit www.swirve.com, coming January 20th, the top 10 films of 2000!

    and, http://www.geocities.com/clutch34_2000 for great Rocket insight by some of your fellow BBS posters!
     
  8. Timing

    Timing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Messages:
    5,308
    Likes Received:
    1
    Abortion makes a mockery of the gift of life. It makes our society colder, darker, and less caring. It makes it easier for our society to accept future morally questionable medical practices as the "norm". It paves the way to make it OK to genetically build children, clone people, cross breed humans with animals, etc. Will feminists defend themselves against the use of genetically built eggs because they can't be told what to do with their bodies?

    Where is the line?

    ------------------
    "Somebody DO something out there." -Bill Walton
     
  9. rascal

    rascal Guest

    Well, by that logic, they also didn't have the chance to become the next Ted Bundy or Son of Sam. So by aborting those would-be killers we're simply performing a little pre-emptive capital punishment. No problem there for conservatives, right?

    ------------------


    [This message has been edited by rascal (edited January 24, 2001).]
     
  10. Timing

    Timing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Messages:
    5,308
    Likes Received:
    1
    On the issue of imposing morality. Government and courts impose morality all day long. Murder is illegal and wrong. Many people equate abortion to murder, thus following that logic abortion should be illegal.

    Though I believe imposing morality on others is generally wrong, there does need to be an overall accepted standard of right and wrong in our society. I think abortion is a very serious issue and should be fair game.

    ------------------
    "Somebody DO something out there." -Bill Walton
     
  11. mc mark

    mc mark Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 1999
    Messages:
    26,195
    Likes Received:
    468
    Timing these are all your opinions. They are valid.

    But, I can make just as many positive assumptions about abortion as you can negative.

    Would you even consider anything positive about abortion I would have to say just as valid as yours?

    Its all perspective my friend.




    ------------------
    'Deeds, not words, shall speak me.'
     
  12. Timing

    Timing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Messages:
    5,308
    Likes Received:
    1

    Perhaps if it were easier to adopt a child than to get an abortion, there would be less children in bad situations.

    It's not about caring more for one or the other. I don't believe criminals should be put to death, that doesn't mean I care more for them than their victims.



    ------------------
    "Somebody DO something out there." -Bill Walton
     
  13. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    22,412
    Likes Received:
    361
    My problem is that this always seems to be the woman's issue. What about women who weren't raped but whose boyfriends abandon them?

    My father was a hospital homebound teacher in HISD for 37 years before he retired this year. He and other teachers in his department had quite a large number of unwed mothers as their responsibility.

    The vast majority of them fell into the same category - minorities who were poor and lived on welfare. The father was long gone and they were stuck with the child. MOST of them came from single-parent homes where the father had abandoned them.

    According to statistics, only 1 in 10 of these girls would go on to college. Many would end up in jail, on drugs or on welfare. More than half would be pregnant again before the age of 20.

    In a recent study written about in the Chronicle, a group studied crime rates 14 years after the Roe v. Wade case assuming that 14 was the year that many children would reach the age when crime tends to begin. They found that youth crime numbers have been reduced dramatically EVERY YEAR following that 14-year marker, especially among poor people. The fewer children born into poverty, the fewer children go on to lives of crime.

    The fact is that most women who get abortions, according to Planned Parenthood statistics, have no support from a boyfriend or husband when getting an abortion. The vast majority are young women who's boyfriends have left when they found out the girl was pregnant. Many of them were abused at home. Most would have to drop out of school if they had a child.

    I agree that fathers absolutely should have a choice but that assumes that the fathers are around to help. The fathers, in most cases, aren't around and often don't care. The girl is left on her own to take care of a child or to choose an abortion.

    I think abortions are awful physically and psychologically for the mother. I would ALWAYS consider it as a last resort. But, I recognize the reality. The more difficult it is to have an abortion, the more mothers will die in an attempt to end their pregnancies, the more children will be abandoned, neglected and/or abused and the more children will grow up in poverty resulting in a world not just difficult for the child but for all of us.

    If my wife and I had to make a decision about abortion, we would do it together. But, most women don't have that luxury. Most women are alone.

    ------------------
    Me fail English? That's unpossible.
     
  14. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    22,412
    Likes Received:
    361
    Timing: I totally agree with you on that point, however, have you ever checked into adoption? It is difficult for parents to adopt HEALTHY WHITE BABIES, but there are more than enough sick, deformed, minority children available RIGHT NOW without nearly the difficulty or hassle. You can add children from other countries to that list as well - Russia, China, the Middle East and Eastern Europe. The adoption process is MUCH easier and fairly quick. The problem: NO ONE wants them.

    The fact is that people who adopt don't usually adopt sick kids, kids with problems, minorities or kids that aren't babies (1 - 5 year olds). They want white healthy babies because the vast majority of people who adopt are white couples.

    I wish people would adopt everyone then no abortion would ever be necessary. That just isn't the reality and it has very little to do with the ease of adoption. It has more to do with the choices would-be parents make for what kind of child they want.

    ------------------
    Me fail English? That's unpossible.

    [This message has been edited by Jeff (edited January 24, 2001).]
     
  15. Timing

    Timing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Messages:
    5,308
    Likes Received:
    1

    I understand the positives of abortion. I'm sure there are thousands of young men and women who have been able to lead fuller, easier lives because they were able to erase a single mistake with an abortion. And even in the case of horrible birth defects, I'm sure many parents are pleased that a child did not have to live a painful life. I totally understand that point of view.

    My concern is where it all leads and whether or not these positives outweigh the negatives. I think our society needs to reach a higher consciousness when it comes to these types of issues. I'd prefer not to make it illegal but I'd also prefer that it be seldom used. That's probably wishful thinking but as far as I'm concerned it's the best answer for problems like abortion.

    ------------------
    "Somebody DO something out there." -Bill Walton
     
  16. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    22,412
    Likes Received:
    361
    That is probably the best post on abortion we've had on this BBS. You can't get much more honest than that.


    ------------------
    Me fail English? That's unpossible.
     
  17. dylan

    dylan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2000
    Messages:
    1,349
    Likes Received:
    18
    Rocketman95, can you please explain this logic? Most PEOPLE can't live on their own; are they alive? Give me a 6 month old baby. I put him in a room with food and water. I leave him alone for five months. I get arrested for child abuse/negligence. But I shouldn't, should I? After all, it wasn't alive, was it? The logic you are trying to use is a losing argument, my friend.

    dylan

    ------------------
     
  18. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    22,412
    Likes Received:
    361
    dylan: I do think you hit on something. This really boils down to what you consider "life". If you believe that life is endowed with a soul at the moment of conception and therefore becomes alive, you are going to be against abortion.

    Those who are pro-choice tend to believe that nuturing a child is very different from living with a fetus in your body. When the fetus cannot survive outside the woman's body, it is still considered a non-life by those who do not believe in life at conception. Up until a point, it is just a mass of cells incapable of sustaining itself.

    That is the fundamental difference.

    ------------------
    Me fail English? That's unpossible.
     
  19. rimbaud

    rimbaud Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 1999
    Messages:
    8,169
    Likes Received:
    676
    I am very pro-abortion. I do not think we have enough of them on a daily basis. We should have "Prime Time" abortions - televised for pay-per-view. There are plenty of sick people who would shell out some cash. Our society is such a death/blood/violence cult anyway - it would definitely get ratings. Then the profit could go towards our suffering schools. Yes, to "save the children."

    Then there could be a 24-hour abortion-a-thon where one doctor has to perform as many as he could in 24 hours without sleep, food, and rest. The same people who were glued to the set, hoping OJ would shoot himself during the Bronco chase would be the same people glued to the set, hoping the doctor makes some horrible mistake in the waning hours.

    But, seriously, abortion is just like drugs -- it doesn't matter whether it is legal or illegal, it will still happen. All of this talk is irrelevant.

    ------------------
    Big A, little a bouncing B,
    The System might have got you, but it won't get me.
     
  20. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 1999
    Messages:
    36,288
    Likes Received:
    26,638
    RM95

    With respect to your following statements:

    "And if you want to argue that it's a life that didn't realize its true potential, then I can just as easily argue that pulling out, or using a condom is the same thing."

    The Catholic church agrees with this statement. In a nutshell (no pun intended) any type of birth control that prevents the sperm from potentially fertilizing an egg is wrong.

    "Also, can someone please explain to me how someone can be pro-life, except in the cases of rape or incest. If it's murder, it's murder, is it not?"

    Again, the Catholic church agrees with this statement. No abortion should be permitted, regardless of the situation.


    ------------------
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now