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Why Would an Intelligent Christian Vote for Trump?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by glynch, Jun 9, 2018.

  1. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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    GWB attended Highland Park Methodist Church and is still considered a member. He seems to have been mostly quiet about trump but I agree... hopefully he feels driven to speak out.
     
  2. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    I can't believe that the Republican Party is so bankrupt and bereft of leadership that well known and now retired leaders won't finally begin to make strong statements calling out and denouncing trump's bizarre and damaging actions. trump has gone beyond the pale. That the famous "graybeards" who remain could remain silent now is unthinkable, in my opinion.
     
  3. sirbaihu

    sirbaihu Member

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    I hate Trump and I'm no Republican, but one party is no better than the other when it comes to "Why don't they say something?" The U.S. had combat deaths in Niger, Somalia, and Yemen last year, in addition to Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan. War in six countries eh? $717,000,000,000 "defense" budget? Israel shooting 58 Palestinians in one day like they were Stephen Paddock in Las Vegas? Why didn't the Democrats and/or Republicans say something? They're all bums and our country is an ugly-ass killer. Anyone still talking "Republican/Democrat" is still high on the Kool Aid.
     
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  4. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    Sure... both parties have blood on their hands. Many Democrats voted to invade Iraq for crying out loud.

    But you have to be very careful in contributing to the “whataboutism” during the Trump era. That is a bad practice to continue because there is no comparison to what you are seeing now and what you will see if the Dems do not take back at least one half of Congress.

    Driving a wedge between the Bernie Progressives and the Centrists will ensure Trump (and the Trump crime family) stays in power for the next 20 years. I hate to be dramatic about it, but I’m telling you that this family has its sights set on installing themselves as a monarchy. A line of Supreme leaders like the Kim Jun family line. Just with a luxury hotel chain and some cute blouses.

    We all understand that we gotta find a way to reverse decades of Corporate money controlling candidates in both parties. We understand that corruption is bi partisan. But we cannot sit here and sulk & start the whole “both sides” garbage argument.

    No... one side is definitely not like the other. We just have to continue to pay attention, be activists in our communities, and get people elected from the lowest level to the highest level to remake the Democratic Party in the mold we want.

    Here in TX the Dems are doing a great job of that with a candidate for Senate who hasn’t taken a dollar from special interests going against one of the NRA’s lap dogs in Ted Cruz.

    This isn’t about Hillary and Bernie anymore... it’s more about Beto vs Cruz, and many of the other key confessional seats that will determine whether or not Trump becomes a dictator or not. That’s the stakes here man, and we just can’t self destruct falling for the “both sides” whataboutism.
     
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  5. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    You stated that the SC was your reason for voting for trump. Would it matter what the dem candidate was? If the dem candidate is a Jesus like moral character ( would nominate left leaning or not nominate right leaning sc justices) wouldn’t you still vote for trump? I think the answer is yes.. correct me if that’s wrong.

    So I think when folks like you bring up Clinton character, I see it as an excuse. It didn’t matter. Maybe it help you folks to justify your votes for a depicable person, to the point where you eagerly eat up the character assignation. Clinton is many things (negative), but she is no where near the moral corrupt character trump is. It’s such an amazing lie that so many want to believe or even more amazingly, do believe.
     
  6. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    How can anyone take you serious when you keep hammering on about "Trump becoming a dictator". You obviously have no idea what a dictator is or what it would mean. You're just as bad as the right wing calling Obama a dictator for his role in getting laws passed they didnt agree with.

    If you truly cared about consolidation of power, you would be more concerned with our oligarchy and the massive impact the super wealthy has in our politics which has existed for decades.
     
  7. Exiled

    Exiled Member

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    not sure about the "2000 years ago", Evangelicals political theology was established after the invention of steam engine in late ~17th century
     
  8. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    The US Oligarchy and a path of dictatorship are one in the same to me, but I never said he IS a dictator. He only wants to be one quite obviously, and if you don't see how he's working to consolidate power to eventually become an American version of a dictator, you're blind.

    Actually... FoxandFriends this morning, let one slip and called him a dictator. So lets not act like Trump's desire to be the "D-Word" is something unfounded.

    *The Obama conspiracy theory (that Trump helped stoke) was that he was a secret Muslim installed by a secret society of socialist elites like George Soros to take over the United States, destroy Israel, and become the AntiChrist. Yes... that was the theory, and I heard it all the damn time from my fundamentalist family members. This is literally what Pat Robertson & co. would tell their following and the person they would use as a source to credit was.... you called it... Donald Trump.

    There's a big difference between that bat sh$% crazy End-Of-TImes conspiracy theory, and calling out that someone who literally sh$t's on a golden toilet & buys a $20,000 portrait of himself with charity donations he uses for his own personal business, who WANTS to be a Dictator, and will try to be one, IF THE LEVERS OF GOVERNMENT allow that type of person to consolidate power with co-equal branches of government.

    Sorry, but if you do not see what Trump is doing to consolidate power & decay the most important aspects of our Democracy, you are blind. His own Data & Analytics firm literally sells a package of services to suppress the African American vote. His friend Kobach is working like hell to throw millions off from voting. This man is, and will continue to attack out right to vote..... Voting.... kind of important to Democracy. This is exactly how Dictator type of crap starts.

    The Oligarchies that have power in the US (Mercers, Kochs, and yes maybe even Soros) only get that power with a willing Autocrat who allows the government and the Oligarchs to become a single operating entity much like we see with Putin and his Oligarchs. The Oligarchy model and the dictator model sort of go hand in hand as we see with the Saudi's, Russia, etc. I don't see this as some separate argument, and the Oligrachy agreement Trump is trying like hell to exploit only furthers the argument that yes... Trump is, and will try to become a Dictator if he's given the ability to do so by witting or complicit Republicans, and an ignorant voter base.
     
  9. sirbaihu

    sirbaihu Member

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    I appreciate your spirit, but I don't consider mine a "what about" argument. I'm saying "we have a bigger problem," not deflecting blame. Republicans and Trump suck! The fact that Democrats are shameless jellyfish does not absolve Republicans in any way.

    But, Democrats suck too. Honest question: what have Democrats accomplished that makes you want to vote for them--going back in time as far as you like? I want to believe.
     
  10. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    An Intelligent Christian might be able to use false or misunderstood logic to vote for Trump
    The real Question is .. . How could a Moral Christian vote for Trump . . . .How could a *real* believer and follower of Christ Vote for Trump?
    Being a Christian and being a believer and follower in Christ has come to mean something totally different.

    Rocket River
     
  11. conquistador#11

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    It's more of a party thing than Trump. How can one be pro life and ignore when the single mother has to struggle paying yuge hospital bills when that child gets sick. How can texas politicians get on stage at Baptist churches to promote their bills? How about serving the poor and not looking down on them? It's a party that campaigns on morality but does the opposite of the teachings of Christ. It' their own version of identity politics. Why they do it? It's been effective all throughout history for every religion, using the Lord's name in vain for personal agendas. By All Religions. It's taken pope Francis being pope to finally get the message out that being Christian is about action for others and devotion for the less fortunate. can you believe john harbaugh gave the pope an eggball? what is he supposed to do with that?
     
  12. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    I'm not going to make excuses for your ignorance when it comes to this topic. If you honestly can't see that there is a huge difference between the Democratic Party and the Republican Party by now, you are either willfully blind or putting us on. Willfully blind would be ignoring trump's actions before, during, and after the "election" of 2016 by saying the two parties "are all bums." In other words, the two parties are "no better than the other." Your words, not mine.

    My reply? Bullshit. Either broaden your news sources or broaden your ****ing mind. With all due respect. You see, when you make statements like that, it ticks off Democrats like me. Why? Because I have criticized the Israeli government and it's actions towards Palestinian civilians many times here. So have several others. I was against the 2nd Gulf War and said so here - before it started. That stance was far from popular then, but events proved me right, even if many of those for it at the time felt that way because they believed the lies being pumped out by the Bush Administration.

    As for the conflicts we're involved in outside of Afghanistan, show me where Democrats have supported them here. I haven't. Democrats like me can support our superb volunteer military, and do, while being against the political actions that put them unnecessarily in harm's way. And the military budget and how it is spent? Yes, I have criticized that, as well. So have others here from my side of the fence. But hey, if it makes you feel better about yourself to lump everyone together, something far from the truth, then that's on you.

    Hell, I haven't seen many members here with the balls to even call themselves a Democrat. It seems to be out of fashion with young moderates, progressives and liberals these days. There is no other alternative politically if they want to have a chance of winning elections and defeating the minority of far-right extremists who currently have a grip on our government, but hey, it's still a free country, isn't it?

    Isn't it?
     
  13. cml750

    cml750 Member

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    Both Trump and Hillary profess to be Christian just as Obama did. If the Democrat candidate was a Christian it would still come down to what they support. If a Democrat candidate would only appoint conservative judges to the SCOTUS and support Israel I would have no issue voting for them but that will never happen in this day and age. So I am left voting for the person who pushes the policies I prefer which for this election was Trump and that will likely be the case in 2020.
     
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  14. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    Who would you vote for then? Gary Johnson or Jill Stein?

    Democrat leaders have done plenty in the past 100 years that have been positive for the country. No they, aren't perfect, but since FDR, they've been on the right side of history on nearly every major issue.

    "What have Democrats accomplished"

    -Civil Rights
    -Healthcare expansion
    -helping save the economy during the depression (New Deal), and even during the most recent recession (stimulus, etc)
    -Womens rights
    -LGBTQ rights
    -etc. etc.

    There are many reasons above for me to have full confidence in saying, I'll vote for THAT over THIS (Republican policy). No... they are not perfect. Especially since during the Reagan era when the Supreme Court ruled that Corporations should be able to contribute to political interests just like every day citizens, NO PARTY is unique in corruption, and it should be our mission statement to eventually get to a point to pass laws that even the SCOTUS cannot ignore that get money out of politics.

    But please spare us with the "But Democrats Suck too" notion. Its that attitude that allows for someone like Trump to get elected with voters getting suppressed or saying "I hate them all, so I'm just going to vote for someone who will blow the whole thing up". Blowing the whole thing up and throwing your hands in the air is exactly the worst thing you can do, and its really really bad to spread this notion across boards like this, and further suppress voters. If you don't like it.... GET INVOLVED. Don't just say "They both Suck" so what hell, lets all just give up.
     
  15. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

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    Every Democratic President since Israel's creation has supported Israel. Obama gave Israel the largest military aid package in the history of our relations with Israel.
     
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  16. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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    Hillary Clinton was raised as and continues to actively follow Christ, is a regular church goer, taught Sunday School, and speaks of her religious beliefs (especially the teachings of John Wesley). Now contrast that with trump?

    But ignoring the enormous divide between trump's Christian beliefs in practice and Clinton's (and Obama's), lets look at Obama's last USSC nominee (and one that Clinton would have likely forwarded)... Merrick Garland. He is a conservative Jew. Would you have supported him?
     
    #56 NewRoxFan, Jun 11, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
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  17. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    What you read here is on the nose results of voter suppression through propaganda. Either he's a target for this propaganda or he's actively spreading it on purpose. I think he's un-witting but its still the reality here. I don't see any malicious intent here, but he's still a product of the campaign.

    But id encourage everyone to listen to a few excerpts from the Cambridge Analytica whistle blower's testimony & read the reports intelligence reports that have come out regarding the Russian troll farm. The formula they use is going on sites sort of similar to this one, and larger ones like Reddit, FB, etc. and pose as independents and people that seem like former Democrats & pose the whole "They both Suck" argument into the equation as much as they can. It gives credibility that they aren't "technically" a Trump promoter (notice how NOBODY here ever actually voted for Trump), but they are doing his bidding by suppressing voters & getting people (especially young people) to throw their hands up in the air and say.... ugh. They both suck. I'm not voting.

    Its a pretty brilliant way to win by suppression. Its easy and the popular thing to say so why not exploit it.
     
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  18. sirbaihu

    sirbaihu Member

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    Me me me me! Well that is a nice defense of yourself being a cool guy! And some CF posters. (Please expand the quote to see where I bolded your self-centered statements.)

    If you notice where I came into this convo, I was responding to your own words about "the graybeards who remain." I thought you were talking about members of Congress, but evidently you were talking about you yourself. Maybe you are a member of Congress after all, Mr. Me me me me.

    That was ironic when you wrote "there is no other alternative politically . . . but hey, it's still a free country, isn't it? Isn't it?" You answered your own question. It is not a free country.
     
  19. sirbaihu

    sirbaihu Member

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    I voted for Hillary. I voted for Obama twice. I literally danced in front of the White House when Clinton was elected in 1992. That's not enough, huh? According to you, I simply must continue endorsing the Democratic Party forever. That sounds kinda dictatorial. . . . Am I allowed to . . . not do that?

    I agree the Affordable Care Act is good. Otherwise, you're mostly reaching back to times before even I was born. Times change. Democrats ("feminists"!) in my office now call for missile strikes and ask why Putin can't simply be assassinated. Nope, I'm not down with it. Not down with Israel. Not down with war war war.

    Vote hard for the donkey! You're helping make America the six-pack-o'-war that it is today.
     
  20. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    These ex-presidents have done a good job maintaining the tradition of not meddling in the political discourse once the new guy is in office. It is a good tradition, given the pulpit ex-Presidents continue to have after they leave office. You see in other countries how ex-leaders continue to hold soft power after they leave -- even turning it into hard power, like the PRI in Mexico after the Revolution, or more recently with Putin. So, I think it is a good policy in general. I'm not sure where it crosses over to be negligence when they see the president trying to crash the plane and still say nothing.
     

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